Couldn’t find the answer anywhere. Any advise is appreciated.
Does time off cycle begin at the end of cycle…or if doing a test taper…at the end of test taper?
The answer to the test taper related question is in the test taper thread. I think (I have read it but ages ago when it started) it starts at the beginning of the six week ‘stasis’ period, but don’t quote me, its definitely there you just need to dig deep into the bowels of the thread.
With regards to a normal cycle, if I did 8 weeks of Ethianate, which equates to approximately 10 weeks of suppression, I would
start PCT on week 9, and stop after about week 13, I personally count time off as time off being fully recovered, so in the hypothetical situation there regarding 8 weeks of ethiante, I would start counting time off after week 13, when I was (hopefully) fully recovered.
However- I don’t come off anymore, and my reasoning is is not scientific,but is based upon empirical evidence- that was just my way off doing it- you could argue time off begins when you have no steroids left in your system, or only a traceable amount not sufficient enough to cause a noticeable effect or suppression, I just used to do it that way as it was slightly more conservative, but as I said that was back in the day when I used to come off LOL
Remember shorter cycles are easier to recover from 
God luck
[quote]buddaboy wrote:
The answer to the test taper related question is in the test taper thread. I think (I have read it but ages ago when it started) it starts at the beginning of the six week ‘stasis’ period, but don’t quote me, its definitely there you just need to dig deep into the bowels of the thread.
With regards to a normal cycle, if I did 8 weeks of Ethianate, which equates to approximately 10 weeks of suppression, I would
start PCT on week 9, and stop after about week 13, I personally count time off as time off being fully recovered, so in the hypothetical situation there regarding 8 weeks of ethiante, I would start counting time off after week 13, when I was (hopefully) fully recovered.
However- I don’t come off anymore, and my reasoning is is not scientific,but is based upon empirical evidence- that was just my way off doing it- you could argue time off begins when you have no steroids left in your system, or only a traceable amount not sufficient enough to cause a noticeable effect or suppression, I just used to do it that way as it was slightly more conservative, but as I said that was back in the day when I used to come off LOL
Remember shorter cycles are easier to recover from
God luck[/quote]
Test Cyp was my test of choice for 10 weeks. I’m leaning on the shorter side of beginning my stasis period (being 4 weeks) as per the test taper protocol of 4-6 weeks for stasis. Not any particular reason, but more or less a trial and error. Thanks for the help, or any additional input.
Yes, many feel that time off starts at PCT, while those who are more cautionary and often more expert in the field start time off after PCT or when HPTA has noticeably recovered.
I suppose the biggest thing would be how you use this information. If someone starts time off at the beginning of PCT, or when the Anabolic compound has deteriorated to less than normal physiological level for endogenous androgens, they might short change their recovery time depending on what recovery time period they follow.
If, for instance, one jumps back on cycle just after noticeable recovery, but follows the idea of PCT being full recovery, then that would be arguably too short for full recovery of not just the HPTA, but also for hepatic and renal values (depending on the compounds used), and for blood lipids, restoration of normal blood pressure, etc. If, however, they used the the same idea (of the start of PCT being the start of the OFF phase) but adopted a longer time period for recovery and total OFF, then that person would undoubtedly recover better.
Since little research has been done on the cycling of AAS, and still much is being learned on recovery from different combinations of AAS, it is hard to tell what would be best in terms of a recovery period. Because of this, the old, scientifically unsubstantiated advice of: time off = time on +/- PCT (depending on the expert), still seems to anecdotally work well for recovery.
I count time off as starting when you have recovered.
[quote]midnightamnesia wrote:
Yes, many feel that time off starts at PCT, while those who are more cautionary and often more expert in the field start time off after PCT or when HPTA has noticeably recovered.
I suppose the biggest thing would be how you use this information. If someone starts time off at the beginning of PCT, or when the Anabolic compound has deteriorated to less than normal physiological level for endogenous androgens, they might short change their recovery time depending on what recovery time period they follow.
If, for instance, one jumps back on cycle just after noticeable recovery, but follows the idea of PCT being full recovery, then that would be arguably too short for full recovery of not just the HPTA, but also for hepatic and renal values (depending on the compounds used), and for blood lipids, restoration of normal blood pressure, etc. If, however, they used the the same idea (of the start of PCT being the start of the OFF phase) but adopted a longer time period for recovery and total OFF, then that person would undoubtedly recover better.
Since little research has been done on the cycling of AAS, and still much is being learned on recovery from different combinations of AAS, it is hard to tell what would be best in terms of a recovery period. Because of this, the old, scientifically unsubstantiated advice of: time off = time on +/- PCT (depending on the expert), still seems to anecdotally work well for recovery.[/quote]
Seems I may have stirred a pot. So, there is no definite answer per say as to when time off cycle begins. But I would not be inaccurate to start my time off cycle after my stasis/taper, and could even be more beneficial? Given this, if my math is correct (and by all means correct me if Iâ??m mistaken). I am currently on week 5 of my 10 week cycle (I will post below). Time off/recovery time would be 20 weeks? Thanks in advance for any additional help!
W 1-4 Dbol 10mg 3x/D
W 1-10 Test C 250mg 2x/W
W14-20 Test E 80mg/60mg/50mg/40mg/30mg/20mg
W3-10 HCG 250iu 3x/W (will actually start week 5 due to piss poor planning).
20 weeks would definitely give you more than ample time to recover IMO, and is a bit long by some standards. However, if safety and recovery is high within your goals, and you are patient, why not? Besides, you would be following the old advice of being OFF for time ON PCT (in this case test taper).
On the hCG: 3X week @250iu is more than what many recommend. hCG has a half life of between 64-80 hrs (depending on who you read), so once every three days is usually used in dosing.
Do you have SERMS and AIs on hand?
MID
[quote]midnightamnesia wrote:
Yes, many feel that time off starts at PCT, while those who are more cautionary and often more expert in the field start time off after PCT or when HPTA has noticeably recovered.
I suppose the biggest thing would be how you use this information. If someone starts time off at the beginning of PCT, or when the Anabolic compound has deteriorated to less than normal physiological level for endogenous androgens, they might short change their recovery time depending on what recovery time period they follow.
If, for instance, one jumps back on cycle just after noticeable recovery, but follows the idea of PCT being full recovery, then that would be arguably too short for full recovery of not just the HPTA, but also for hepatic and renal values (depending on the compounds used), and for blood lipids, restoration of normal blood pressure, etc. If, however, they used the the same idea (of the start of PCT being the start of the OFF phase) but adopted a longer time period for recovery and total OFF, then that person would undoubtedly recover better.
Since little research has been done on the cycling of AAS, and still much is being learned on recovery from different combinations of AAS, it is hard to tell what would be best in terms of a recovery period. Because of this, the old, scientifically unsubstantiated advice of: time off = time on +/- PCT (depending on the expert), still seems to anecdotally work well for recovery.[/quote]
Plenty of anecdotal resaerch has been done on PCT in the form of users getting blood tests.
Have you read the taper thread?
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]midnightamnesia wrote:
Yes, many feel that time off starts at PCT, while those who are more cautionary and often more expert in the field start time off after PCT or when HPTA has noticeably recovered.
I suppose the biggest thing would be how you use this information. If someone starts time off at the beginning of PCT, or when the Anabolic compound has deteriorated to less than normal physiological level for endogenous androgens, they might short change their recovery time depending on what recovery time period they follow.
If, for instance, one jumps back on cycle just after noticeable recovery, but follows the idea of PCT being full recovery, then that would be arguably too short for full recovery of not just the HPTA, but also for hepatic and renal values (depending on the compounds used), and for blood lipids, restoration of normal blood pressure, etc. If, however, they used the the same idea (of the start of PCT being the start of the OFF phase) but adopted a longer time period for recovery and total OFF, then that person would undoubtedly recover better.
Since little research has been done on the cycling of AAS, and still much is being learned on recovery from different combinations of AAS, it is hard to tell what would be best in terms of a recovery period. Because of this, the old, scientifically unsubstantiated advice of: time off = time on +/- PCT (depending on the expert), still seems to anecdotally work well for recovery.[/quote]
Plenty of anecdotal resaerch has been done on PCT in the form of users getting blood tests.
Have you read the taper thread? [/quote]
I have read the thread, though quite some time ago…
Yes, while there is indeed little scientific literature available on HPTA recovery post cycle, there is better advice, anecdotal or not, within that and other threads, both suggesting and addressing directly the issue of recovery. So often, uncontrolled (scientifically speaking) and anecdotally-based research far precedes controlled experimental research. This is the case with these threads.
Rather than relying on an outdated and unsubstantiated adage, I would have been better to reiterate far more experienced user’s advice.
Having, myself, always followed an overly cautious approach, I am only beginning to experiment with time as it actually corresponds to the HTPAs recovery (using tests, matched with and prompted by subjective measures of recovery), rather than relying on pre-set guidelines.
Appreciate the correction, as always.
MID
Im not correcting you. Not wrong. But not the whole story IMO. That’s all
Im just “filling in a gap” I guess.
[quote]midnightamnesia wrote:
20 weeks would definitely give you more than ample time to recover IMO, and is a bit long by some standards. However, if safety and recovery is high within your goals, and you are patient, why not? Besides, you would be following the old advice of being OFF for time ON PCT (in this case test taper).
On the hCG: 3X week @250iu is more than what many recommend. hCG has a half life of between 64-80 hrs (depending on who you read), so once every three days is usually used in dosing.
Do you have SERMS and AIs on hand?
MID[/quote]
I do. I have both Arimidex and Nolva on hand. I just plan to use the Nolva at the beginning of taper. Although, I have also read that there is success without the use of a SERM or AI while tapering.