T Nation

Time it Takes to Complete Density Layer

Christian Thibaudeau Coaching
#1

Hello CT,

I’ve been progressing in my Density layers–started out getting a total of 9 reps and now I’m approaching 20 total reps across 3 sets (each one between 3-7 reps). I’m getting used to handling this kind of weight. As such, I find that the more reps I strive for, the closer to 30 mins the entire layer takes me. This is way too long, isn’t it? I’m sure you wouldn’t even consider it “density” at this time.

What should I do? I’ve tried taking less rest, but this layer really kicks my behind. Should I consider limiting myself to 10 minutes, or is there another way?

I’m still new to this system, so any tips would be greatly appreciated.

#2

I’m not ct but I remember reading another thread somewhere where ct states that the most reps you should be doing per set is between 2-3 so that if you do a set every minute for 10 minutes you’ll end up between 20-30 reps total. Doing reps up to 7 will gas you and you won’t be able to recover as quickly to complete the rest of the reps.

#3

And you’re still referring to singles, correct? Or have I misunderstood something? Each set takes me a while because I’m doing:

1 rep

10-25 seconds rest

1 rep

10-25 seconds rest

and so on. This goes on for several reps, at most 7, which encompasses one set.

Have I missed something?

#4

I think what you’re doing is the clusters … the density layer I’m referring to 2-3reps on the minute every minute for 10 minutes with 80-85%… this is after the ramp … I think ct had said doing the clusters and density work was too much for long term … he eventually preferred the ramp and then just the density work I described… I could be wrong but that was my understanding … I would search the threads to be sure but I think that was written

#5

[quote]MikeMezz wrote:
And you’re still referring to singles, correct? Or have I misunderstood something? Each set takes me a while because I’m doing:

1 rep

10-25 seconds rest

1 rep

10-25 seconds rest

and so on. This goes on for several reps, at most 7, which encompasses one set.

Have I missed something?[/quote]

For the cluster sets you rest around 7-10 seconds between reps.

#6

Okay–so shorten the time between singles. And concepthenry, all I am currently doing is the Ramp and the Cluster sets (no more density work after this).

#7

[quote]MikeMezz wrote:
Okay–so shorten the time between singles. And concepthenry, all I am currently doing is the Ramp and the Cluster sets (no more density work after this). [/quote]

That’s actually what I normally do. I start with two cluster sets, add 1 per week, the 4th week I do 4 cluster and add an HDL layer (Hard 5’s, 5-4-3-2-1, Extended sets). My results were always better and I didn’t get burned out as easily that way.

#8

^Yeah, I’ve been doing this for several weeks now. The other day, though, I did my Bench layers, but was striving for 20 total cluster reps. Ended up like: 4 singles, 3 singles, 3, 3, 3, 2, 2. I was determined to get 20. This is overkill, I’m sure. I might have to lower the weight on my clusters so that I can hit at least 5 singles each set.

I wish I could train with CT so that all my confusion would dissipate. I’m certainly learning, though.

#9

Another option is density work were you do something like 85% and you aim for 20-50 reps in 8-10 minutes or less.
You do this by doing singles, double, and maybe triples and most, every 3 seconds or so.

#10

Would you suggest I either:

  1. Do the cluster sets; as many as it takes to reach at least 20 reps (at least until I get stronger to push beyond);

or,

  1. Only perform 3 Cluster sets; if I don’t reach 20, then it just shows I have to get stronger.

As I’ve said, I’ve done option 1 only once before, in order to reach 20 singles on the slight decline Bench press. With my other lifts, I tend to get 5-7 singles each cluster set.

#11

[quote]MikeMezz wrote:
Would you suggest I either:

  1. Do the cluster sets; as many as it takes to reach at least 20 reps (at least until I get stronger to push beyond);

or,

  1. Only perform 3 Cluster sets; if I don’t reach 20, then it just shows I have to get stronger.

As I’ve said, I’ve done option 1 only once before, in order to reach 20 singles on the slight decline Bench press. With my other lifts, I tend to get 5-7 singles each cluster set. [/quote]

Number 2.
Or set 20 reps in 5-7 minutes.

#12

Gotcha, thanks a lot. I’m loving this layer system. Why did my younger self have to be brainwashed by all those bodybuilding magazines?? THIS is the way to train!

#13

[quote]MikeMezz wrote:
Gotcha, thanks a lot. I’m loving this layer system. Why did my younger self have to be brainwashed by all those bodybuilding magazines?? THIS is the way to train![/quote]
I’m new to this as well and I’m trying to learn everything I can before I pull the trigger and give a try. Are you following one of CT’s programs or have been able to program yourself. I was thinking Indigo Project? I too was brainwashed. Sorry to intrude on your thread.

#14

[quote]storm3 wrote:

[quote]MikeMezz wrote:
Gotcha, thanks a lot. I’m loving this layer system. Why did my younger self have to be brainwashed by all those bodybuilding magazines?? THIS is the way to train![/quote]
I’m new to this as well and I’m trying to learn everything I can before I pull the trigger and give a try. Are you following one of CT’s programs or have been able to program yourself. I was thinking Indigo Project? I too was brainwashed. Sorry to intrude on your thread. [/quote]

Hey, man. Hope this isn’t too late, but I’ve been implementing my own program that is centered on this layered system. I am currently doing SGHP, Front Squat, Push Press, and Bench using this layered format and it’s been working great. My workouts are simple, yet brutal and effective. So, no, I’m not following a program exactly, just using this system for these 4 lifts. In my split, however, I am doing the front squat layers twice. Hope that helps–it’s an amazing system, and you need to do it!