T Nation

Time frame for turning natural

I’m gonna be going natural soon. My plan is to finish up this Test prop(400mg/week) while I try to get as lean as possible, I’ll probably reach 6%. I’ve been on something for probably 15-20 weeks now and cycling for the past 4 years. After the prop. I’ll do 3 weeks of 5000iu/week HCG and 100mg Clomid for 4weeks. Currently I’m 6’4 240 at 8%. My question is in reference to the “coming of the juice” section in the Anabolic Primer book by I think Gerard Thorne and Phil Embleton. They claimed this 3 Phase process lasting like 5 months and resulting in a loss of 50lbs LBM. From what I’ve read I always thought the process was only 4-8 weeks and a loss of 10-15lbs. I’m guessing they were referring to a pro coming off of 4000mg/week.

Well, people who don’t follow good advice with regard to cycling do suffer drastic losses afterwards.

On the one hand, you have not been too wise (no offense intended) in being on for 15-20 weeks. Your recovery may be slow. On the other hand, given your height, unless you are naturally quite slender, you’re probably not all that drastically above your natural limit, and therefore your losses should not be that bad. If you had been “on” for only 8 weeks I’d say, expect to lose 10 lb, and then only very slowly continue to lose size down to about halfway down towards what you could have achieved naturally, but since you’ve been on so long, and also since you are not following good advice with regard to HCG (see other threads on this, there has been a lot of discussion) I would not be surprised if you lose 20-30 lb of muscle. Your proposed Clomid use is non-optimal also.

I tried the other threads, it stopped after a few pages. I got 15,000iu HCG and 144(50mg)Clomid tabs, what am I doing wrong?

HCG works much better with no adverse side effects (does not cause gynecomastia) if used in small daily doses, rather than less-frequent large doses. 500 IU per day is usually right and 1000 IU is a reasonable maximum and for many will just be wasteful. It can be used during the cycle itself so as to avoid any problem with testicles ever occurring. Or if the amount is limited it’s best used in the last several weeks of the cycle. In the first
few off weeks is not as good a time to use
it, because the testosterone production it stimulates is inhibitory to recovery of your LH production. (Not necessarily very badly so, but somewhat.)

Clomid does not need to be over 50 mg/day for
recovery purposes (if using a lot of aromatizing steroids, 100 mg may be preferred for stronger anti-gyno action.) However, this can’t be achieved well by simply taking 50 mg/day, because the drug has a long half-life. Once steady-state has been reached – the level you want – you won’t have in your system just the 50 mg you took that day but about another 250 mg left over from previous days. So to get it working right away, instead of waiting weeks for the level to build up, one takes 300 mg on day 1, in six doses of 50 mg.

During the cycle, unless the cycle is very mild, e.g. 400 mg/week Primo, androgens shut down LH production anyway so Clomid does not maintain LH production. It might be used for an antigyno agent, or to help keep the blood lipid profile good. After the cycle is over, it should be used until natural testosterone production definitely seems to be back, and then another 2 weeks for good measure if the Clomid is available. This will often be 4 weeks total.

Thanks for the advice, I’ll use the HGC before in the last weeks of my cycle and do what you said with the Clomid. I guess I’ll start another thread if I run into any problems when my cycle ends. Luckily I don’t need the antiestrogen benefits. I’ve been as high as 1500mg/week total of test/dbol without any problems.

Sorry, you can’t ever “go” natural one you’ve taken steroids. You could say you’re “going off steroids (for the time being anyway)”, but that’s about it. You made the choice!