Time for a mother f'n rant..

You may be surprised (or not!) to hear me say this…but in many ways you are right…as a people, we can sometimes be are own worst enemy. (e.g. Black on Black crime is the largest killer of young black males)…


I personally do not run from realities…nor do I make excuses when people are in the wrong…but don’t run around pissed off with a chip on your shoulder because everytime you see a “Black Enterprise” magazine that this represents some type of “oppression” against you.


Your “dumb and lazy” comments don’t even warrent a response.


Mufasa

First of all, good post. You make good points and I understand what you are saying. However the discrimination you faced in 1960 or whenever it was shouldn’t apply today. Affirmitive action, which I see happening to the point where I get sick, was good for that time. I just don’t think its needed now. The fact that minorities, escpecially blacks have so much in their favor now is why Affirmitive action isn’t needed. If these people give any effort whatsoever for an education it can be paid for because of “special scholarships” that schools give. These same folks complain about their shitty paying janitorial job. “The man is keeping me down!” No, it’s not Whitey’s fault, it’s their fault. Perhaps they shouldn’t have dropped out of high school. It’s always The Man’s fault, when these people just don’t want to take responsibility for themselves. This BET crap is another thing I don’t understand. With all of the Hip-Hop and Rap music played on MTV I often get the two mixed up. TV in general is this way. It all seems to have an “urbanistic” feel to it. Don’t know why, but people flamed Garrat for his post. He made some good points, and I agreed with a lot of what he said. I think this nation’s work to make everything politically correct has done more harm than good. And it sure as hell benefits certain people over others, if you know what I mean.

Like you I’m also sick of this crap. Here in Toronto the city police are currently on a recuiting drive. Women, especially women of color go to the front of the line. That’s crap. How will this correct the wrongs past and present? If you were to be given a job because of you color how would you feel? If you lost out on position because you weren’t a woman, would that be okay? While I haven’t experienced either of those scenarios(to the best of my knowledge), two wrongs do not make a right.

Mufasa… As I recall, being a resident of Alabama. Wasn’t it the blacks who put George Wallace into office? And didn’t he open all those great community colleges in the state to offer them increasing access to education.

It just comes down to PRINCIPLES. Just because they did it to you doesn’t make your doing the very same thing any better. There has to be some big fucking conference somewhere and everybody in the world signs this thing via the web where we all agree to just drop this shit. We need to worry about our survival as Earthlings and that shit is for real. We have way to many fucking problems ( oil, polution, rain forests, grean house, HAARP, star wars, A bombs, breaking my leg, anthrax, my lil sisters drug problem, water supply, this insane war on drugs, obesity, communism, my grandmother dying, dead beat dads, education, education, education, education, THE MAN taking 40% of my earnings, big tabacco,child porn, serial killers, guns in schools, that funny rash on my ass, social security, corporate scandal…) When exactly am I supposed to give two fucks about some poor lil ol me race dispute?

You know, I’m getting tired of the current “politically correct” mantra of the day that “there is no such thing as race anyway.”

This is pure intellectual dishonesty and sticking the head in the sand. People generally considered to be of Race X (be that white, black, Oriental, whatever) produce children generally considered to be of that same race, more consistently than could be explained by chance alone :wink:

Now, if you want to redefine race, go ahead, but that’s what you have to do to support the “politically correct” assertion, and do it in your own private conversations with other people who want to use your new definition – but don’t attempt to communicate with me by changing definitions of words, especially for the purpose of making them meaningless, without at least first honestly admitting that that’s what you’re doing.

I wonder if any of these people chanting that there is no race, still want race-based preferences? Hmm.

Well, I usually agree with what Mufasa has to say. He’s smart, well-educated, and generally of a level opinion about things. And he made some good points in his post above.


But I think that there’s another side to everything you said, bro. I guess that my own personal experience (being a white guy in Japan) is somewhat analagous to what blacks supposedly experience in America. And I have certainly found that there is a lot of prejudice here, both institutional and personal, both pernicious and benign.


But you know, I’m doing okay.


I think that the prejudice I have experienced here is, objectively speaking, probably worse than anything that any black (or other minority) person has gone through in the States, assuming that that person was born during or after the Kennedy administration. Here, people don’t even assume that I can speak the language. I mean, that’s pretty basic. If they find out that I can speak it, they are then amazed to find out that I can read and write it pretty well too. Try opening up a business sometime when every civil servant that you talk to first has to make sure that (a) you can communicate and (b) you’re literate. It do get frustratin’ at times. :slight_smile:


Try leasing a phone line and being told that you have to have a (Japanese) co-signer - by law. Try waiting ten years before a company will trust you enough to give you a credit card - never mind that your credit is perfect, that you’re a company president, etc. You don’t conform to their rules about what constitutes a good credit risk (and of course you won’t for at least a decade, as the rules effectively rule out anyone who’s not part of the system, i.e. any foreigner). Try walking into a restaurant and having all the waiters and waitresses hold a confab in the corner to see who has to go take your order. Try being turned away from a restaurant because you “couldn’t possibly have a reservation”. (Yes, this has happened to me.) Try any of that, then see if your experience here is really worse than that of being in the States.


“But you left voluntarily…”


So? Doesn’t change the reality. And if any black person thinks that a black-run country would be more to his or her liking, s/he has a lot to choose from in the Caribbean and Africa. But I don’t see a whole lot of emigration from the US.


So what’s my point here? I guess it’s that, yes, prejudice does and probably always will exist. It’s a fact of life. So it’s up to each individual to make of it what s/he will. If someone snubs you because of your color, hey, it’s their loss. There are others around (probably that person’s neighbor) who will treat you right. If someone refuses to hire you, go to work for the competition and do a good job. Put that someone out of business. Competition’s prejudiced too? Fine, start your own company and do some damage that way. Where there’s a will, there’s a way.


I’m fairly well-versed in history - both sides of it - and as it happens my best friend, the guy I’d call “brother” if I had a brother, is black. So I’m maybe a little more informed than your AWB. I’m not ignorant of or ignoring reality. But I have to say that a lot of the problems that occur could easily be avoided or at least brushed aside. In my circles - and I’m faaar from politically correct, T-brethren - one’s attitude communicates much more than the color of one’s skin.


Just some thoughts.


Peace.

First off, Mufasa, you did such a great job at attacking nearly every angle that there isn’t much to say except…I am in school in order to be a doctor and I am also black. I am also the ONLY black male in my class at the school and have dealt with so much bias based on my appearance that the simple thought of “oppression of the white man” is sickening. I can’t tell you how many times I am asked, “do you work here?” or “What do you do here?” despite the fact that all students wear the same colored scrubs. As far as BET or the Black Ms. America Pageant, could you all please tell me where I am going to find hair care products in Maxim? You do realize that our hair does not respond to the same things as yours, right? What about styles of clothing? Am I going to find what my friends are wearing in Maxim as well? The Ms. America pageant was nothing but white until most recently. I can’t find one Wu Tang video on MTV to this day and to those bitching about Micheal Jackson, he had to threaten to sue Sony Records for his video Thriller to be played on MTV–the first video by a black person to EVER be played on the network. That is what we have dealt with as recently as a few years ago. Radio stations and television networks didn’t have to classify themselves as “WHITE”, because that went without saying. I remember growing up (born in ‘76) and being truly proud to see a black person on a commercial or with their own television program. This was back when not one commercial ever showed a black Barbie doll (or any other race for that matter but white) or a black Cabbage Patch Kid. What effect do you think this has on a kid’s self esteem when they are raised around no blatant images of “themselves” held as beautiful or appealing? Would you all truly have such a hard time understanding this if for the past few hundred years, before 1970, every single advertisement, magazine or public facing only showed a black image? That is what we were raised on with our parents having it even worse. I have never seen change without a fire and it makes me wonder why anyone would think that the changes that have occurred over the last few years or decades would have happened if there had not been a “fight” for it. I didn’t get into school based on my color but on my GPA. The bald head and size from bodybuilding and football doesn’t add to favorably to some of the reactions I receive either. Anyone who believes that racism is dead and that we should all just move on is fooling themselves. This thread is a prime example of that because you can’t tell me that you are holding these feelings inside and showing no bias towards other races. The “white culture” ruled this country’s perceptions and values for centuries and now you have a problem with their being forums for our music and style? I turn on MTV I get Nsync and Brittney Spears (although that last one is quite nice to look at), where is my Toni Braxton, The Roots, and Erika Badhu? You all have never had to call things white (except in the 50’s when describing water fountains) because it has always been that way in this culture until recently. As soon as I can open Maxim and see a huge fold out ad for razor bumps or hair relaxer, a big poster of a black (or any other race for that matter) model on the cover for several weeks in a row, and a run down of the best Rap and R&B CD’s on the inside cover, then you will have a point. You exclude and then get mad simply because there are businesses that are blatant enough to call it like it is. If you did the same, everything would have “white” on it.

–Race- There are 3. Caucasoid, Negroid, and Mongoloid. Now, I agree that ‘race’ is a misnomer. In every other animal, a ‘race’ is called a ‘breed.’ There are distinct differences, but not only in looks. For example, Negroids are more apt to be inflicted with cycle-cell anemia than the other races. Just like certain breeds of cats are more apt to be inflicted with feline leukemia. But, that point is moot since science chooses to call the different ‘breeds’ of homo sapien ‘race.’

–Michelle- you hit on one of my favorite abuses of the language. When ‘Congressman’ is said, the ‘man’ implies ‘mankind,’ not the male gender. While the norm for the language is slowly being shifted by rampant demands for such things, that is still the nature of the language last time I checked.

–Mufassa- Now you know exactly how this white male feels. I am so sick of being the enemy just because I am white. And bringing up the past from a generation you never lived in is not a valid argument. I never segregated a single black person from anything. I never owned a slave, and you were never a slave. If you want to bring up the past, being a Christian, the Romans killed my savior. So, I don’t hold anyone descended from those Romans responsible for it. They themselves had absolutely nothing to do with any of it. So you are saying that a ‘black maxim’ is a necessity? How so? You can’t survive w/o it? You yourself committed the heinous crime of racism in your post- You posted in a prejudicial manor based on nothing more than race. You prejudicially decided that if it weren’t for established laws and such that this country would still be segregated. That is racism, my friend. You do not know this for fact. You are making a judgment w/o prior or full knowledge. And this judgment is based upon race. You are being prejudicial concerning race, which is racism. And all of these mags and shows are not 90-100% white because every member of company producing them is racist, it is because they appeal to the largest buying demographic in the country. It isnt like the producers of ‘Friends’ said “Lets make us an ALL WHITE show so that no dern negro will wanna watch it!” I would be willing to bet it was more like “Since the demographic research shows that shows with a predominantly white cast relates better to the largest demographic, and we are after all trying to sell as much of this as possible, we will go w/ this cast.” Not racism, just reality… But your race is the minority- statistically your race SHOULD trail the majority in every category. To use your phrasing, why in the HELL do you need a black maxim? You don’t. But, you would like one, I suppose. Just like some white ppl may like an all white maxim…… Get yourself a life there, Mufassa. PEACE right back at ya, big fella.

–ko- that was pretty petty of you to say, my poor oppressed yellow brother.

–Char- Very well said.

–D_END- it is the principle of the entire thing. If you complain of something, you better not do that very same thing.

–Prof X- Congrats on your advancement in the medical field. I wish you the best of luck, I know that that field is hell on wheels. Again, the corporations are playing to the largest sales demographic, I doubt that racism is #1 on their list of priorities. I would think that making money is. A mag that fits your criteria very well is ‘Blender.’ You should pick it up.

–One last thing, I thought the entire ‘separate but equal’ thing went out a long time ago. But it seems that many ppl wish to be treated as such. Instead of ‘American,’ you are ‘African American.’ Purposely separating from the norm. What happened to acceptance? It is absurd to think you will gain acceptance by separation.

PEACE!

Man there are some good arguments here, but again the very bottom line is that if a white guy started the United White-person College fund, or National Association for the Advancement of White People, he’d be deemed the most racist bastard on earth!! But Blacks can get away with that shit all the time. This stuff in the news about blacks wanting reperation for slavery, drives me nuts!!! I never owned a slave, and nobody alive today was a slave, so nobody owes them a damn thing! It’s just another way to try to use the system to get rich!

Who thinks races do not exist? The country would be better off WITH segregation, for the blacks and the whites…LONG LIVE THE CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA!!!

clarification- Science chooses to call the different ‘breeds’ of the homo sapien species ‘race.’ Dunno if that was clear b4…

This whole discussion, while heartfelt, is kind of silly. Who cares whether someone wants to take his capital and target a business to a market niche? One mention that the market niche might be based on a race and people fly into a tissy, when it’s really no different than marketing to any other segment of the economy. A private person marketing his product to a racial niche, if he is successful, is just hitting a segment that doesn’t consider itself well served by the big boys who cater to the majority’s taste.


It is hardly surprising that a segment of the population that accounts for approximately 20% of the population would find itself ill-served by mass-marketed products and institutions. Mass marketers make their money by appealing to the mushy middle and then expecting to capture at least some of those who will just settle for whatever is easily available. If there is a large enough niche (which can be potentially captured) that is dissatisfied with what is offered, someone with the initiative can exploit that niche for a profit while serving its taste better than the mass choices that are available. Thus, the appearances of “black” products are not racist manifestations, but an illustration of why everyone is better off overall in a free-market capitalist system.


Now, with all the various opinions on the various politics of race that float around here, it seems that the underlying question one needs to consider is: What makes racism morally wrong? In other words, what is the baseline value that racism offends? Only when that is identified can you have a rational dialogue on the subject, rather than a rehash of “Why I feel upset at how I’m treated” from so many different perspectives.

political correctness…shivers!

What a bunch of dribble on here. Blacks are 12% of the population but 88% of the prison population. does that tell you anything? Wake up you liberal-assed faggots. They want everything the easy way. sure there are good ones, like my good friend Mufasa. But the majority just want to smoke crack and eat watermelon and steal from Whitey. Get in the real world assholes.

Lots of bs here. I didn’t even read most of the thread, because I know I have heard it all before. Makes me a little sad. I remember being a young man living on the Mexican border. I and all my friends were SURE that racism would be gone by the time we were in our 40s, because none of us felt that way, and by then all the rednecks would be dead. In a hundred years or so, everyone would be a nice light brown, and there would be nothing to fight about. HA! Hard to believe I was once so ignorant. POINT: Black only magazines, networks, etc. exist to fill a need. They are a commercial venture. If there was no market, they would fold. If there is a market, it is because there is a segment of the population that is not getting its needs met elsewhere. To bitch about this is as silly as bitching about ice cream flavors. What the hell do you care what someone else reads, watches, eats, etc? Get a fucking life! QUESTION: How about this…The government is a special case, as they alone can legally use force. Make then color-blind in every way. Everyone else, do whatever you like. Bizarre, I know, the idea that a person’s business, home, etc belongs to them. Anyone remember the right to free association? POINT: Just for the record, I am as white as snow, we came into Charleston in 1878 from England. I have 3 Mexican step-sisters, and 2 black friends. The last few years before I met my wife, I dated oriental girls, for the most part. Gee did I leave anyone out? See how silly this shit is? Is there anything less important in choosing a friend than his fucking tan, for petes sake? And finally, to quote Chris Rock: “I’m always hearing some white guy on the radio talking about how they are losing the country. Shit, if you’re losing, who the fuck is winning?”…I’m looking at all you white folks that come to see me. Not one of you would trade places with me…AND I"M RICH!" Chris is a funny / smart dude.

Gearhead, what do you do for a living and do all the kids in the trailor park get a free high school diploma or do you have to cut grass for it or something? Damn, I guess I should say, “sumthin’” since I don’t want to confuse with all those SAT words.

Now I know this is not a hard and fast rule but I think the problem blacks face is that 70% of black households lack a father. That is a frightening percentage. In my opinion a good dad can make all the difference many times. Now there are criminals of all races sure but maybe the reason it is so high (if Gearhead is correct cause I’m not quite sure on the exact figures) is related to this dilema? I do think, however, that the people who always lean on “The race card” need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and do there best to be a good citizen. And yes racism is very existant but that “race card” is now used practically whenever certain people don’t get there way. Also it’s used for political agendas by politicians to aquire votes. I suppose what I’m implicating in the latter half of this post is that those who cry wolf once too often will eventually discover that htere cries will fall on deaf ear. That’s not good obviously when you consider that the times true racism does take place it will go unheard. Maybe?

Read Da Man’s post. He was 110% correct on everything. No one can debate what he said because it was fact. After what Da Man posted nothing else needs to be said.

There are two main reasons I don’t like to respond to post like these, and why I’m getting weary of arguments like have been presented:


1)People Don’t Read What you say; instead they interject what they THOUGHT you would, or ought,to say. Examples:


a)I do not blame, nor have I EVER blamed “the sons for the fathers”, nor use history as an “excuse” in my own life. So I CERTAINLY will not make it for a whole “race” of people. I was merely pointing out the historical roots of the establishment of “black” institutions, businesses, publications, etc.


b)Now this is what I see as hypocritical in a lot of these post. You accuse others of “whining” and “complaining” about their lives, yet the basis of the original post was the biggest whine that I hear today; the “oppressed” white male, or the growing weariness of “being the enemy”. And all because of a Pageant or two, a publication or two( that you’ve probably never seen OR give a shit about) and a Television Network with a yearly budget less than NBC spends on advertising???


Where is the true “whining and complaining, guys?


2)I never implied that businesses did what they did for any OTHER reason except to make money. What I stated were facts.


You guys (especially DA MAN) supported my argument. If a “black” Maxim exists, a market was created because a certain segment of the market was not being served.


(By the way, many of you guys brought up BET. It exists for that very reason).


Just a few other points.


1)Please read…really READ my post before you go on the attack. You guys are now playing with words (which often happens in these “discussions”), with words like “wants” and “needs”. No…a publication devoted to a certain segment of the population may not be a survival need, but becomes a need nonetheless when it addresses the concerns, lives and struggles of that particular part of the population. There are VERY few things that we concern ourselves with in America that I would consider “survival” needs, but are important to us nonetheless.


2)At no point in my post did I imply, advocate, or even remotely disguise some desire for segregation. Nor did I call individuals “racist” or even make any comment on WHAT their motives were. It was merely to point out cause and effect, that’s all. I leave it up to others to decide where their own hearts lie. I don’t have the wisdom nor the power to make those kinds of judgments.


Let me leave you with a question, (because this was one of the most unbelievable and unfair charges leveled against me). Are there ANY one of you who SERIOUSLY believes that if businesses and people could legally get away with it that you would not see an explosion of segregated businesses and institutions? You bet you would. And if you don’t believe it…then take the red pill…and stay in Wonderland…


Peace


Mufasa