T Nation

Time for a mother f'n rant..

I go into my local convienence store last week… and I look on my shelves… to see a maxim rip off, but get this… it’s an all black magazine… im I the only one alive who believes this is friggen racism in itself… They specifically made sure there were not one SINGLE white person on the entire magazine… If white people did that, we’d smell lawsuits… I think it’s bullshit, and im tired of races complaining about how they are suppressed… now it’s on da flip side… the white male is the most discriminized (sp?) person in the world… and frankly, and sick and tired of it…

You’re serious, right? Whatever…

He has a point… There is the ‘Black Miss America,’ specific black scholarships, and a host of other things that deny anyone of non-color inclusion. Miss America has black women in it, but the Black Miss America has 0 white women. Is that fair? No, it is racist. Making it a point to NOT include those of different race. I thought the entire point was ACCEPTANCE and INCLUSION, despite race. Yet, the very same ppl turn around and do something that excludes ppl for nothing more than not being of the same race. The very races that strive for such inclusion turn around and exclude based on nothing more than race. They do the very thing they claim to be battling against. Doesnt make much sense, now does it?

You are right. But I think it’s a rebound effect from the slavery and racism. Also, there hasn’t been traditional black american culture as such. They lost their roots and has been trying to recreate their culture, imho. The black Ms america, black magazines and BET are just a part of that.

Playboy, Maxim/Stuff, and magazines like it are not all white, but they definitely are about 90% all white. Just because they don’t advertise it as white doesn’t mean that it’s not. The television show “Friends” doesn’t advertise any all white episodes, but I think there may have been a few, if not most, all white episodes. So, as a white guy, I think a little truth in advertising would show this is not a one sided practice.

How is giving someone favor because of their color any different than not giving favor because of color? Both are discrimination.

First of all, race does not exist. It is based upon arbitrary physical criteria. One could just as easily invent a race of people with a certain hair colour, waist measurement or hand size, etc. Ethnic background is what people usually mean when they say race. For example, an asian guy could grow up in east LA or soemthing & wind up ‘black’ even though he looks asian. Anyway, ANY reference to ‘race’, sex or ethnic background, is sexist or racist. Of course nobody would complain about someone saying Hilary Clinton is the 1st woman senator (something like that), but the very same people would say that George Bush is the 43rd male president, is sexist. I don’t see how having scholarships, job positions or magazines which exclude a specific group of people, whether it is by ethnicity, by sex, by geneology, etc is not sexist, racist, etc. Stuff like that does nothing but segregate society even more. I know political correctness has its place, but a natives-only scholarship, or women-only positions on the math department @ my U just for the sake of having girls-only or minorities-only stuff is absolutely ridiculous. If they want what white males have got, do what they do.

Of course its racism, but whatever makes them happy and keeps them off the radio screaming oppression is fine with me.

The best thing about this country is that we can all bitch and moan about this color and race shit but all it really comes down to is how good you are at what you do. As for the miss america, hoes are hoes and being in an all black contest has got to be demoralizing. To know that you are the best in some perverted subclass is the dumbest shit ever. Seriously, competing in a one race contest is admitting to one race being superior to the other, or are you saying they are different. I would have to say that since black women are in the Miss America and only black women are in the Black miss america then they themselves are stating their inferiority.

I have to agree, but at the same time look at it from another perspective. To have complete ‘inclusion’ we would have to remove gender and race. ‘First Human’ to do something. When you do this, you see that almost all of the ‘firsts’ in the modern world belong to white men.

Is that the fault of the white men of the world? No, not at all. They are/were a product of their society and culture. For a very long time most things in this country were 'white' even if they were not named so. Non-majorities were kept out in everything but name.

Unfortunately, Miss Black America and BET just cause a bigger divide... but are a source of pride for the people who participate because they are celebrating who they are, instead of wishing they weren't so that they could be included.

You do have a point, the people who start 'White Entertainment Television' will be tarred and feathered. What's the soltion? I don't have one.

I think Fragile and D_END have good points. Something that is an example of the people Fragile is talking about is that Al Sharpton and Michael Jackson are calling the CEO of Sony a racist b/c Jackson’s newest record sold like shit. Just ridiculous. I think that D_END’s idea is the best one to espouse b/c it is pretty true except that the people who conduct and watch these racist events and shows don’t really view it as being inferior. I kind of feel sorry for the black race b/c they have very few good leaders. At least men are making strides with a handful of things(like The Man Show). The race issue will probably go on forever. Best to just sigh and move on.

“Great strides” like The Man Show? Yeah, if this keeps up someday we may have male CEO’s, lawyers, maybe even a male President! Er, wait a minute, we already have those in spades. My bad.

Great show though, funny as hell.

Please learn to capitalize and spell before holding yourself up as the defender of the white race.

The world is a confused and messed up place.

This argument of “reverse racism” is getting so old and tired, and I’m getting so weary of “arguing” it, that I almost didn’t post. But since this represented my poor oppressed, (and it is probably safe to say), mostly white, “Brothers” Of Iron, I thought, “maybe just this time”. I’m not out to change anyone’s minds. But before you start spreading the dribble I’ve read in this post, I ask that you do just one thing; think about what you’re saying…

A Little History

Many of you know that I’m a fanatic for College Football, especially the SEC and Big 12. 40 years ago, the only thing that I could have done at the University of Alabama was cut the grass, clean toilets and MAYBE work in the cafeteria (as long as I didn’t touch the food that Johnny and Missy had to eat). And when I finally was able to “legally” go, the Governor would have blocked my entrance, and once past him, my life would have been made a living Hell by the Student Body.

This was throughout society, folks, and permeated anything I may have wanted to do; from getting a higher education to buying groceries. Out of this atmosphere, and out of necessity came “black” colleges and “black” businesses, and “black” publications, NOT because someone simply “wanted it that way”, but because it had to be that way. There were no other choices or options. It you were going to have anything in your life that even approached the “American Dream” it was going to have to be within the context of being black owned, operated and/or established.

And THAT’S the reality, folks.

“Yea, yea yea…but it’s 2002, Not 1955”…

Do you guys honestly think that if people could legally get away with it, that this nation would not be as segregated as it was in 1955? You bet it would…and as Jesse Jackson once said, you have the prime example of “Sunday morning at 11 o’clock…as the most segregated time in America…”

Now, I’m for free association with whomever you want to…but laws DO NOT change people’s hearts. And when people’s HEARTS are unchanged, they will turn to much more subtle ways that are both legal and “reasonable”; no…they don’t advertise as a “white” magazine, but 99% of it’s content is geared toward a white readership. No…as a corporation, we do not discriminate “as policy”, while it’s executives, boards and shareholders are as white as they were in 1960. And of course, our University has a non-discriminatory policy of equal employment and admissions. Right…eliminate the football teams, basketball teams and Groundskeepers, and George Wallace would be VERY proud of how far the SEC has come…

The point is that in order for there to be even some minute representation of this part of the population that in your minds is “taking over”, some of those “black” institutions, publications and the like are as necessary now as they were in 1955. (By the way…the originals poster’s “rant” was a prime example. If you want to see White Women in all of her glory she is EVERYWHERE; turn on the T.V.; pick up a book; click on a Porn Site; go to your local Mall. From Playboy to Good housekeeping; Maxim to Prevention; “The Young and The Restless” to “The Evening News With Dan Rather”; from “The Home Shopping Network” to Your Local Wal-Mart…White Women from slender to fat, tanned to pale; rich Princesses to Tank Top Wearin’ Trailer Trash…she is there in all her Glory to see!)

The Same Can Not be said for a beautiful Black Woman…

Necessity, folks…NECCESITY!

“But you should only hire or admit the “best”…

If I hear another white guy who didn’t get into grad or medical school blame me for their failure, I’ll through up…and can someone PLEASE tell me when and where this “pure” America is, that only hired and admitted “the best”, existed? It has often been (especially with very sought after positions) who someone knew, or who their parent’s were, or their “breeding” or “station in life”. Don’t begin to impart some purity on processes that have NEVER been pure, just because you think I may have some type of warped “edge” or “advantage” on you.

I don’t. As a race, I probably outnumber you in prisons, in the NBA and NFL (but NOT on welfare rolls, by the way), but not much else.

AND GLORY BE TO JESUS HALLELUJA, MY POOR OPPRESSED WHITE BRETHREN! Every program or policy that may have given me a boost in admissions processes and hiring in the past are being rescinded AND being upheld by the courts in every state in the Union.

WE BE FREE AT LAST! (Ha… ha…I still got you outnumbered in PRISONS though!)

“But Ain’t this “Black” Stuff Just “Reverse Discrimination”?
There is a HUGE difference between something that is born out of necessity (the example being that of the “Black” Maxim or “Black” Hairstyle Magazine because you will see VERY little of either a beautiful black woman OR hairstyle anywhere else) and someone creating something because they ‘think” there is “reverse discrimination”. Tell me…why in the HELL would you need a “white only” men’s magazine or “white only” women’s hairstyle when they 1) already exist ad nauseum and /or 2) can be found with the click of a mouse or of a channel changer?

Guys…Like I said…I could care less if I change any minds. But at least I hope you think before you go into a store ranting and getting mad about something you have no reason to be angry about…get real…and get a life…PEACE…


Well said, Mufasa. You tell 'em! :wink:

Very well said. Unfortunately, I’m willing to bet Garratt isn’t capable of understanding even 10% of what you wrote (if he even bothered to read it).

Nobody keeps black men from achieving the top positions in corporations or american dream. The main reason they don’t make it is because most of them are too lazy or dumb (brought up influenced by getto type ideals) and they spend their time doing crimes and drugs. As for black models not being represented in Playboy and other magazines, that only reflects the fact that white hispanic and asian women as a rule are better looking and a majority of men (including many black men) agrees with that. Black people like to complain that they didn’t make it because they are black when the reality is that they are lazy and stupid (due to their cultural mentality, not because of the skin color) and can’t achieve anything despite all the privelegies they are given.

Mufasa, you make good points but in defense of people who say,“Only the best should get the job”(or some variation), most have experienced this first hand when themselves, a family member, or friend have been on the bad side of this situation. People normally don’t care about issues too much until it affects them directly and then they forge opinions that are pretty much set in stone. Not that that is right but try to understand why people hold that viewpoint. The “Black Maxims” and similar things that are privately run organizations are not a big deal to me.

Also, I am looking at this one from my viewpoint but I think everyone should try to forgive and forget(to at least some degree) and not hate people for what their ancestors did to their ancestors. I say this b/c you brought up the way things were before the 1960’s. Now affirmative action, I believe, was a necessity in the past but I believe its need has dwindled down to where something far smaller is needed. But I sure as hell can’t come up with what would better serve us so we’ll have to stick with affirmative action until someone has a better idea. Much the same way unions are and were. I just think the need for things of this nature are hurting more than helping now. Just like so many thing that start off as great ideas and are initially effective but turn sour over time.

Also, don’t be so quick to say that whites outnumber blacks as welfare recipients. I’ve been to a number of sites(government sites not individual’s) and the data seems to show that whites and blacks are neck at neck in welfare cases. I should do some more reading though because(as you know anyways) you can’t get the full story from just a few places. Prison populations, I’m not sure blacks really are the biggest prison population. I’m don’t tend to believe the general ideas of races are always correct. You’re right about something else: this is a pretty lousy thing to talk about.

Right on Mufasa, I could not have said it better.

Why would you even care about a magazine directed towards African Americans? If you don' t like it don't read it.

If you feel so strongly discriminated against, why don't you take it to court. That is of course great thing about this country. Love it, Leave it, or CHANGE it. My guess is that it's not worth your time, and not really that big a deal to you in the first place, my poor oppressed white brother.