T Nation

Tiki Barber for President!


Why can't we have an intelligent, articulate gentleman like this man for president? His list of accomplishments is stellar and he is a brilliant communicator.



There is very little as condescending as referring to a black man as "articulate."


How should we indicate that a black man can speak eloquently and express his thoughts clearly then?


He's not comparing him to other black men. He's comparing him to other presidential candidates. "Articulate" is indeed a step up from the norm...


How about just assuming that a man who graduated as Valedictorian of his high school, earned cum laude honors at his college while playing football, and is now a well-paid and sought-after broadcaster and speaker might, you know, be able to string a sentence together.

A white man with these credentials would never be referred to as articulate or someone who "speaks so well".


That's bullshit. I have heard many a honkeys refered to as articulate or well spoken. I never in a million years would have thought that speaking well of someone would be demeaning or condecending. Besides, I haven't heard many football players be well spoken, have you?


I never thought expressing admiration for this fine man was somehow an insult. Harris, why did you take it that way?

However, I do thank you for giving me even more reasons to admire Mr. Barber. It'd be an honor to vote for him.


There is very little as irritating as manufacturing ways to be offended for the sake of being offended.


Gee, after your recent posts about a newly-elected member of congress being a secret agent for Al Qaeda and scurrilous bullshit about MLK in the guise of respecting him, what a shock that someone might take your words to be less than truthful.

I stand by what I've said.


Agreed. Tiki is a great guy, and a very good speaker, no matter if HH is trying to appear less racist or not (and if this is an attempt to prove he's not a racist, I still believe he honestly believes Barber is an articulate speaker).

So... stop pulling the race card WAY before it's due.

I don't see Tiki as a politician, but I'm sure he'll make a great announcing addition at any station he may go to (I'm hoping FOX, I'd love to hear him comentating on Giant games, though it might be a bit awkward the first few years).


Please ask black people if they find being called "articulate" condescending.

Most that I know class it with being asked to touch their hair.

I wasn't offended, merely pointing out that even when Dickhunter tries to make amends for his recent spate of bigoted posts, he still comes off as a pandering, doddering geezer.


You're right. Any minority with half a brain would have agreed with you. However, there is little need to jump into this thread because it is more than clear than many of the posters here are absolutely clueless about any culture that isn't their own...even one that lives in the same country as they do or on the same street. I have had patients make comments when I leave the room (still in ear shot) to the effect of, "He speaks so eloquently"...as if they expected me to walk into the room and grunt a few times, make some random noises associated with monkeys and then jump on their chest for emphasis.

Of course a non-minority doesn't get it...because they don't experience it. No one makes a comment when a white doctor leaves the room about how "eloquently" he speaks. They consider it a given that the doctor isn't a retard simply because he is a doctor. For someone to not be able to see this or understand it only shows their own arrogance...because they can't see beyond themselves to the point of view of anyone else.

I must say, I do enjoy breaking stereotypes. The only thing better is allowing idiots to think they are the smarter entity for a while just to see what they truly think of you.

I can only imagine it is why some latinos pretend they can't speak english in certain situations. It gives you so much insight into the mind of your opponent.

Peace out.


Yeah, minorities must all draw the same conlusions...or, they're obvioulsy lacking a brain. I don't understand how you can decry bigotry in the rest of your post, following such a bigoted statement.

Are you leaving something out? Someone remarks to another that you're well-spoken, and you take offense to that? Doctor or not, people are still impressed by an eloquent speaker. And no, not every doctor is eloquent. For that matter, not every English Proffessor is an eloquent speaker.

You know, there are a good number of whites who've personally experiened bigotry. Up to, and including, racial violence. You're not white, so you wouldn't understand that...because you haven't experienced it. Sound familiar?

And, how do you know patients aren't commenting on well-spoken white doctors? How could you possibly know that?

Well, I would never consider a doctor a 'retard.' However, as someone who has undergone lifesaving surgery, lengthy physical rehab, and frequent followups, the way a Physician articulates what I need to know goes a long way to imparting confidence. Does the Dr. rely too much on medical jargon? Basically, am I left baffled by Doctor lingo. Or, is the Dr. able to communicate the information in a clear and concise manner to me? Yes, I consider those matters of eloquence.

Now I'm sure you can bring up clear examples of bigotry. However, unless you've neglected sharing something about these patients' comments, I'd say you've some of your own stereotypes to break.


Well, I couldn't fathom asking 'black people' what they think - after all, isn't it bigoted to think that all members of a minority think the same?

Plus, if this be true - how does one pay a black person a compliment? Ever?

If when I say one black man is 'articulate', the sinister presumption - according to you - is that most blacks are morons, what is the presumption when I say a black woman is 'attractive'? Should we automatically assume that I presume most of black women to be hideous?

A compliment is a compliment. Maybe you can infer bigotry based on the speaker, but you were complaining about its usage generally. And that is plainly absurd.

I have no idea what Headhunter's motivation was, but that isn't what you were complaining about. You were complaining about calling blacks 'articulate' generally, no matter who did it.

Racism is an awful thing - why always go looking for it, even when it isn't there?


And a minority with a full brain would realize the absurd results such a theory leads to.

I don't think that is right - there is nothing clueless about recognizing sham calls of bigotry when it simply doesn't exist. At some level, no matter what your ethnicity, you can't take every claim of victimhood seriously just because someone says it.

Maybe you are just a really eloquent speaker? Why go searching for a racist-laden explanation? Why turn everything into a chance for a racist act?

Here is where, by your own standard, you fail your own test - how do you know? How could you possibly know this? How could you possibly know what patients say about white doctors and their eloquence? And how can you know that white people 'take it as a given'?

You are making assumptions about white people that were the same assumptions done on black people, you would be shrieking to the high heavens how bigoted the assumptions were?

I see your point of view just fine - and I think it is wrong. There isn't some large cultural barrier to understanding what is at work here.

I think this paragraph tells it all - your assumption is the other ethnicity is the 'opponent' in any given situation. This, without question, speaks volumes.

It is no wonder you think the compliment 'articulate' is a loaded statement - you think non-blacks are 'opponents' with a sinister agenda. You don't take other ethnicities on good faith. Your presumption is that of a racist act and the other ethnicity must overcome that racist presumption, rather than the other way around, i.e., you will assume they are racist until shown otherwise.

A faulty view, in my opinion, but you make more sense now than ever.



Ripping black liberals does not make me a racist, anymore than you ripping white conservatives makes you a racist.

I rip black libs. I rip white libs. I rip people who vote for someone because they are of the same faith. I rip hypocrits and phony conservatives like Bush.

It would be a pleasure to vote for Mr. Barber, Ms. Rice, Mr. Powell, or any such fine individual. They are some of our nation's finest citizens.

It should be pretty clear that I'm not racist. I WOULD question the motivation of someone who keeps calling me that.


One doesn't have to go looking for it when the source has demonstrated these characteristics again and again.

You've made the leap from (the implied) most black people in my post to all black people to make a false point.

Of course allblack people don't feel this way. But I guarentee most do. Is it "bigoted" to assume most blacks are Democrats? No--statistics and anecdotal evidence bears this out. nice strawman, though.

Once again, I stand by the fact that calling a man who was valedictorian of his high school and now commands scads of money as a broadcaster "articulate" smacks of the lowered expectations of bigotry.


Gee, that's funny. I accompanied my wife to see her doctor not long ago and when she came out, she kept commenting on how great her doctor was; on how she (the doctor) listened attentively and took the time to answer all her questions at length.

Her doctor is a white female. Am I to assume that my wife is sexist towards women and racist towards whites?

I'm on my third dentist in 5 years because the first two where "retards," or at least unprofessional clods who made me feel like I was imposing on their time.

There is a lot more to being a doctor than just having a degree nailed to the wall.

Congratulations on your self-diagnosis.

What those idiots think of you might have nothing to do with how smart you are, but simply be because some people are good judges of character.

Eloquent and articulate. Bravo.


You are drunk driving again - are you complaining about Headhunter's usage of the term or general usage of the term?

Because it's different, depending on your answer.

No, there is no false point - my implication was also 'most' black people. And if I characterized 'most' black people as thinking a certain way - especially a way that you didn't like - wouldn't you call that bigoted?

But is what we are talking about measurable? Or are you just assuming it to be true?

I don't care, either way - my point is not that you are wrong to make the generalized statement, but that I suspect you would treat other generalized statements about 'most' black people with a double standard and denounce such generalizations - especially if you didn't like the generalization. That was my point - if you get to generalize, we all do. Make sense?

A strawman is when I assign to you a position you don't have and then argue against it. That is not what is at work here.

And that is just dumb - if, for no other reason, that Tiki Barber is actually an articulate guy, which he is.

Stand by it all you want - but it doesn't make sense to assume a racist-act when there isn't one.


Here is what Jason Whitlock, African-American reporter, had to say about Bill Cosby:

Cosby spoke for nearly an hour. He was funny, articulate, passionate, concise, profound and inspiring.

Now, Cosby has a PhD. He is well-known - he has speaking to the public over 40 years in some capacity.

So, why would Jason Whitlock have the audacity to point out that Cosby was 'articulate', knowing full well Cosby's CV and experience???

A racist act, done by one black against another, according to the bone-headed theory being proffered here.