T Nation

Thyroid Basics Explained


#202

I don’t see a connection.


#203

7-Keto at 25mg daily has been shown to increase circulating Thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) and both active thyroid hormones (T3 and T4) 5-9 days following topical application of 7-keto cream, with effects lasting for up to 2 weeks after cessation.[3] There was high inter-individual differences seen, with youth having greater circulating levels.

One study using 8 weeks of supplementation of 200mg 7-Keto noted that supplementation was associated with an increase in T3 by 17.88ng/dL while placebo increased T3 by 2.75ng/dL while both T4 and TSH were unaffected after 8 weeks.[27]


#204

I found some info on that study: http://www.currenttherapeuticres.com/article/S0011-393X(00)80026-0/pdf

The involvement of Peak Wellness Inc means that the study may be biased. The results are mis-reported [ERROR]
THE FACT THAT NO ONE BOTHERED TO PROOF READ THE REPORT IS NOT FORGIVABLE. IT IS NOT PEER REVIEWED.
And many on the WWW keep repeating the lies. TYPOS do matter. [141 or 131?], [2.27 or 12.75?]

The study group has lower T3 levels in the beginning than the control group.

The statement that “placebo increased T3 by 2.75ng/dL” is not supported by the reported data in the study. See Table II

The placebo T3 increase was 141.0 - 129.2[5] = 12.75, NOT 2.75

Something might have been going on. Note that T3 does not affect mitochondrial metabolic rates. fT3 does that. So we do not know if T3 rates were been confounded by increased thyroid binding globulin. T3=TBG+fT3

TSH changes were essentially unchanged.

My conclusion is that the study group had lower T3 than the placebo group. In the study group, the lower T3 move to a near optimal level from below optimal. In the end the study group’s average T3 got to the where the placebo group started. So if T3 is the big issue and advantage, the placebo group started with where the study group finished and T3 is not a valid explanation for weight loss. Both groups did a lot of exercise on a fairly low calorie diet. Both groups had increases in T3 [see table II]. The bottom line is that the exercise and low calorie diet increased T3 significantly in the study and placebo group. The placebo group ended up with T3 above optimal [mid-range]. So the implication that higher T3 drove weight loss is not acceptable.

I have attempted to contact Douglas S. Kalman

Edit: Douglas Kalman reported to me that the table was corrected. But it was so long ago, he did not recall the details. The corrected paper never seemed to be indexed by Google that I could find. So we have this paper that was corrected, but I could not located that. Meanwhile this paper’s findings are referred to over and over again on the WWW and we are stuck with that.


#205

[quote]KSman wrote:
I found some info on that study: http://www.currenttherapeuticres.com/article/S0011-393X(00)80026-0/pdf

The involvement of Peak Wellness Inc means that the study may be biased. The results are mis-reported [ERROR]
THE FACT THAT NO ONE BOTHERED TO PROOF READ THE REPORT IS NOT FORGIVABLE. IT IS NOT PEER REVIEWED.
And many on the WWW keep repeating the lies. TYPOS do matter. [141 or 131?], [2.27 or 12.75?]

The study group has lower T3 levels in the beginning than the control group.

The statement that “placebo increased T3 by 2.75ng/dL” is not supported by the reported data in the study. See Table II

The placebo T3 increase was 141.0 - 129.2[5] = 12.75, NOT 2.75

Something might have been going on. Note that T3 does not affect mitochondrial metabolic rates. fT3 does that. So we do not know if T3 rates were been confounded by increased thyroid binding globulin. T3=TBG+fT3

TSH changes were essentially unchanged.

My conclusion is that the study group had lower T3 than the placebo group. In the study group, the lower T3 move to a near optimal level from below optimal. In the end the study group’s average T3 got to the where the placebo group started. So if T3 is the big issue and advantage, the placebo group started with where the study group finished and T3 is not a valid explanation for weight loss. Both groups did a lot of exercise on a fairly low calorie diet. Both groups had increases in T3 [see table II]. The bottom line is that the exercise and low calorie diet increased T3 significantly in the study and placebo group. The placebo group ended up with T3 above optimal [mid-range]. So the implication that higher T3 drove weight loss is not acceptable.

I have attempted to contact Douglas S. Kalman

Edit: Douglas Kalman reported to me that the table was corrected. But it was so long ago, he did not recall the details. The corrected paper never seemed to be indexed by Google that I could find. So we have this paper that was corrected, but I could not located that. Meanwhile this paper’s findings are referred to over and over again on the WWW and we are stuck with that.
[/quote]

Wow that’s crazy. Thank you for digging into that; very impressive.


#206

I think that 7-keto will help with calorie control and exercise; weight loss. The T3 connection is not knowable at this point.


#207

I just had blood drawn this morning in order to have thyroid (and liver) markers tested, as part of my high-SHBG / low-Free-T connundrum, recently detailed here:

After reading the Thyroid sticky, I took my waking temperature this morning and it was 97.2. So that’s low. I got a hold of some Iodoral from a store today and took my first 25 mg dose, and am planning to do 50 mg/day as per KSman’s advice.

However, just now I got home and took my 5:30 pm temperature and it’s 95.9 (!) WTF?! Can that be right, or is my 8-dollar Walgreens digital thermometer just not to be trusted? What would this mean, if true?

Thanks.


#208

I took my waking temperature this morning: 95.9! Can this even be right? I’ve never heard of a body temperature that low. (?)

Regardless, I’m on my second day of treatment with Iodoral at 50 mg/day.


#209

Suggest that you find someone else to try thermometer. If they can hit 98.6 in the afternoon, you have confidence in the thermometer.

This is not material for a sticky, please use your own thread for your case details.


#210

On some websites like stopthethyroidmadness, they mention that an optimal fT3/rT3 ratio is 20 or higher (though it depends on which units you are using). Less than 20, and hypo symptoms might surface. Is that valid information?


#211

I have seen that, but have not really used that as a criteria for working with guys’ lab work. Probably has merit. I guess that I get focused on low body temps when fT3 is adequate as a sign that one should consider and test rT3. Probably partly because I hesitate to suggest labs without such grounding. Once a guy has rT3 labs, I have not considered the ratio. At what point does one do what? Dealing with elevated rT3 is rather difficult as I discuss.

The causes are stresses to the body and those can be from many things, often multiple. I could do better using that ratio, but not sure at what point what I should suggest be done. I like to point people to Wilson’s book and the process of reading that tends to provide one with insight that cannot be delivered by me doing this. I guess that things get out-of-scope for my process with its limitations. I am not trying to replace what STTM does.


#212

I’ve been doing the Iodoral regimen for 18 days now at 50 mg/day. I am feeling much better in terms of energy, no more brain fog, more motivation, libido, etc.

My morning temps are up to 97.9. (Sometimes 97.7 but usually 97.9.) My late afternoon-ish (i.e. 6:30 or 7:00 pm) temps are up to about 98.2.

1.) Is it time to stop, or taper off, the IR? If not, how long is it safe/ok to continue at 50 mg/day?

2.) KSman, I noticed you’d mentioned taking half of a 12.5 mg tablet once a week as a maintenance regimen. Should one switch to that immediately upon reaching the ideal temperatures, or taper down to it gradually?

3.) I still want to get my thyroid labs re-checked, and have them test for rT3 (which they didn’t a few weeks ago when they did throid labs). Do I need to be totally off Iodoral before I have those labs done? If so, for how long beforehand do I need to be off it?

Thanks in advance. I’ve been perusing this thread, which is a great resource, but couldn’t find the answers to those. I hope I haven’t missed something.

Thanks!


#213

I think that 6.25mg a week is enough for maintenance.

Two weeks should be enough. So maintenance the following week.


#214

[quote]KSman wrote:
I think that 6.25mg a week is enough for maintenance.

Two weeks should be enough. So maintenance the following week.[/quote]

Thanks. (Note: Late afternoon temp just now was 98.4.)

Any idea how long I might need to be off the Iodoral (or at least the 50 mg/day dose) prior to getting new thyroid labs done? (And can I be on the maintenance dose of 6.25 mg/week and still get the labs done?)

Thanks!


#215

The issue is letting higher TSH induced by higher dose iodine. You need to give it time to normalize and I have never seen any data or opinions on a time frame for that. The related issue is “Iodine-Induced Hyperthyroidism” in the context of [hopefully] no underlying thyroid disease and in a quick review I did not see anything addressing TSH normalization times. In our case with short duration high dose iodine we are looking at an acute situation [short duration].


#216

Wow! I’m finding more and more value in this site everyday. Unbelievable knowledge base in this thread alone. Started HRT a little less than two years with pretty good success. But, recently have thought other things like thyroid/adrenal issues could be at play.

Past 3 morning body temps are low ranging from 96.43 two days ago to 97.10 this morning. Suspect at a minimum, I’m iodine deficient. 6-month labs coming up soon. Have asked for additional labs (basically everything recommended by stop the madness site). Now after reading this entire thread and becoming aware of IR, I am wondering if I jumped the gun and am asking for overkill for what could possibly be corrected by simply taking iodine supplements.

Concerning labs, part of me wants to wait before beginning any kind of regiment, see what the labs say, then start a protocol to correct. I’m one who wants to see cause and effect, not only concerning lab numbers, but also in symptoms. If I jump in with IR now, then do labs, will they hold the same value as if I had determined baseline numbers first? There may be benefits to myself and all who follow this post, to get the lab numbers first, then make a decision on what to do about them. I realize labs must be coupled with symptoms to add real value to ones understanding.

By waiting to start a protocol until after lab results are in, I postpone my own short term well being and possible recovery, but I lose understanding. What to do…

What an awesome place this is to learn and take control of your own health. Thank you to all who contribute.


#217

KSman, In your opinion, if one suspects iodine deficiency, would there be more value in having labs (ft3, ft4, rt3, cortisol, and others) run before or after iodine replenishment? I have been leaning towards doing labs prior, but wanted to get your take on that. Thank you


#218

You get the labs and they will be “normal”, you then have to judge how much they are not optimal. From my conservative point of view I don’t see the value in seeing the numbers from this situation. But things can be complex if not a simple iodine deficiency issue. TSH, fT3 and fT4 are of interest. Could there be thyroid autoimmune antibodies that should be tested? If fT3 is good and temps are low one can test for elevated rT3. So if testing, you have to cut things off somewhere. Something that you need to decide for your self.

You can palpate your thyroid and if you feel any lumps, that is valuable info and an indicator of longer term iodine deficiency from elevated TSH levels.


#219

Thank you. I do have gluten sensitivity and that, or at least celiac disease, has an association with hashimoto. It is just so hard to tell from my symptoms. I am definitely showing low morning temps and a tendency not to consistency reach 98.6 later in the day. I’m dead tired, but I don’t seem to be able to get adequate sleep. I also get what I think are some heart palps, but not all the time. I am generally more anxious than not and have had panic attacks in the past. That was years ago. Many of these contradictions seem to point to possible later stage hashimotos and flip flopping between hypo and hyper. Highest TSH ever that I know of only reached 2.16 though. I have also asked for labs for rt3 and, anti-TPO and TgAb for possible hashimoto. Apologies if all this belongs in my own thread. Thank you for you help.


#220

Not sure what to do now: I did two and a half weeks of 50/mg day of Iodoral. My morning temps had gotten up to 97.9, my late afternoon temps to about 98.2.

After that (the past 9 days), I’ve switched to a half tab (6.25 mg) of Iodoral once a week. However, my morning temps are now 97.7, but my afternoon temp is now 97.2 to 97.3. WTF?!

Should I go back on the 50 mg/day protocal? Or some dosage in between?


#221

We have taken iodine deficiency off of the table.

Make sure someone else can hit 98.6 on that thermometer. Is your technique OK? Note eating, drinking, talking or exertion for a while?

You can not also see if labs are shifted.