thunder,T-T, patricia and anyone else willing to help

Well, after lurking for about a year I’m finally ready to try and do it T-mag style.
Been reading up as much as I can but I do however have a few questions still…
I started out BFL style and then moved on to compound movements about a year ago, so the training isn’t too shabby. The diet on the other hand seems to need much improvement , it was also first BFL and then the zone and of course a few months of the atkins craze thrown in. the end result of all this was 20 pounds of fat lost in a year and not a single pound of muscle gained :frowning: (sadness)

So here’s the new proposed diet ideas after reading many posts and articles, any ideas, suggestions are very welcome

Female, 5’4, 170 pounds, appx 42% BF or appx 100LBM

First I did the calculations T-dawg 2 style on LBM and ended up with
150g protein,
50g fat and
70/100 g carbs, that leaves me at 1330/1450 calories total which seems low (then again maybe my fat butt needs to be that low) :slight_smile:

in accordance to Hot-Rox suggestions and not go below bodyweight times 11 for females that would put me at 1870 calories.

So I recalculated T-dawg 2 in my desired outcome weight ( appx 130) and ended up with
195 protein,
65 fat and
70/100 carbs for a total of
1645/1764 cals
figured that might be a good starting ground???.
If I’m way off please let me know

I will be using surge for PWO and also Hot-Rox after the diet has been approved by people more knowledgable than me

ABBH will be used for w/o and the question there is:
IF I’m only able to get to a gym mon-thu would it be ok to do the weighttraining 4 days in a row? Or would I be better off just taking my time and go whenever available with ample rest periods inbetween?
Before someone says make the time to go on the weekend , let me explain that I do musicfestivals and other such odd events and oftentime they are in BFN with no gym in sight, not to mention working from 10a to one in the morning.
The plan on those days is to bring my KB or go for a walk or something and work out anyway I can manage.

Work-outs will be in the mornings to make sure I don’t cheat :slight_smile:

My question for thunder is what your thoughts are about cardio? I know you don’t think much is needed and I’d love for that to be true in my case, what would your initial recommendations be?
It seems you favor HIIT, let me make sure I have this right, when HIIT is done first thing in the am would one then eat a little first and then also make sure to eat carbs afterwards?
If that’s the case then what about carbs putting you out of HSL ? isn’t that why one does cardio in the first place?
If I seem boggled by all the finer points youre right, It’s so frustrating to keep going when you screw up and don’t get results

My question for patricia is what your LBM is?
you are absolutely amazing and I can only hope to one day look half as good as you do, very inspiring !!! for some reason I cant seem to figure out the numbers backwards and I’m trying to see how much LBM I need to add to my frame. btw, I LOVE the idea that its OK for women to lift heavy

tampa-terry, I was following all your posts in the bows thread so that’s where a lot of my starting points are coming from. Any input you have at all would be mostly appreciated.

And of course any other kind soul willing to help, thank you so much in advance !
(sorry it got so long)


You will get to know or may have already realised that everyone’s training ideas are so varied this includes dieting as well…

What feels good for you?

If training 4 days in a row is all you can commit too then that is perfect… for you. As long as you commit to training at your best levels on these 4 days.

Do you want to compete? If yes, then you need to find the time to make a greater commitment. If no, then what you are doing will get you where you want to be in time. But the first thing is that you need to accept what you are committed to doing and then stop worrying.

I do my cardio in the mornings… I feel like crap if I don’t… I run 5 mornings out of 7 for my cardio and do a 2 days on, 1 day off, 3 days on, 1 day off split… I use to instruct Pump and Combat classes ontop of that but have since stopped.

My diet is really nailed, I have a friend that is a genius when it comes to food.

So… find your feet and your confidence and get out there and kick some butt! Stick with it, find what feels good, oh and finally… GO HARD or GO HOME!!!

Feel free to PM me…

Good luck S.

Sofia, what a great message for a first-time poster! It’s obvious that you’ve been lurking – and reading!

It does not matter which approach you choose when calculating caloric requirements. Give yourself two weeks to settle into your new eating patterns and make adjustments (if necessary) the first day of Week 3. If you’re losing weight too slowly, drop calories by 250 calories per day and leave it that way for a week. If you’re losing weight too quickly, add in 250 calories per day and leave it that way for a week.

You’re going to have problems if you try to do ABBH with no rest in between. It’s not designed that way, and you’re going to overly challenge your CNS and end up breaking down.

Options are:

  • Follow ABBH, working out every other day.

  • Follow a different program, one where you work out 3 days a week.

Actually, I’d prefer to defer to Chad Waterbury on this one, re recommendations. Too bad you didn’t have Friday AM (or Sunday PM) available to work out. If you did, you could probably get away with something like HST.

Re HIIT, you’re right. Don’t do it on an empty stomach. You could have carbs afterward if you like, but not necessary. Try 3 days a week on days you don’t lift. But your carb intake is low on T-Dawg. So if energy levels become a problem, either reduce it to twice a week (one session of which would be after your refeed/cheat meal) or try steady-state at a lower intensity, but longer duration. And yes, HIIT will give you a bigger bang for the buck cardiovascularly, metabolically and anabolically. But it assumes you have a certain level of cardiovascular fitness to begin with.

If you have any other questions, don’t hesitate to ask.

thanks guys, I much appreciate your help

miss blu, I’m definately not in it for competing, just wanna look good nekkid as they say :wink:
that your diet is nailed is obvious, you look phenomenal!!!
any good tips from your genius dietfriend? also curious about the LBM again so I have a clue as to what to aim for.

TT well, when you state it like that it seems rather obvious regarding the calories LOL, funny I couldnt have thought of that myself.
regarding the abbh I think I’ve figured out a way to do it even when I’m out on the road. since I dont push too much weight (yet) I should be able to bring some DB’s and then use the sandbags that I’m already hauling around to keep my booth from blowing away :slight_smile:
the only tough exercise is the DL since I know for sure I can at least do 17555 but I thought that if I bring a small barbell ( 5 pounder) I might be able to hook on my sandbags and start lifting them :slight_smile: what do you think?
also the dips and pull-ups I havent quite figured out how to do yet. I need assistance on both so perhaps doing dips between two chairs? and pull-ups from the roofrack of the van? LOL
any better ideas much welcome.
Ialso have a question about the decline sit-ups, should these be done with weights if one can handle it?

about your advice to chainsaw and have a small protein shake 1 hour before “waking” and then working out, would that hold true to me as well?
I did my first abbh this morning and had half my surge beforehand and half after. is the surge enough or do I need to incorporate the protein shake first?

btw, the abbh did seem pretty easy, maybe because it was so quick, or maybe I just need to go heavier, should one be exhausted or not?
was also pleasantly surprised about the surge, didn’t think I was gonna like it since I don’t like most “american” sweets, but I can see how you’d make yourself w/o just so you can have your surge :slight_smile:

I’ll try for HIIT any day that I’m not travelling and KB or walk on weekend if I havent managed to get 3 cardios in during the week. (I did get a heart-rate monitor for that exact reason)
regarding the HIIT after the cheatmeal, please tell me you are kidding?
isn’t that the time I get to go all out and get my sugarcoma etc?
then if I’m that full how on earth do you manage to do HIIT without throwing up?

also, does the surge count as one of the 6 meals or is it ok to do 6 meals plus surge if you stay w/i the macronutrients?

phew…hows that for a lot of questions in one reply? :slight_smile:


I think I need to take back that the ABBH seemed easy.
upperbody is starting to feel sore all over


Hey Sofia,

That’s a very detailed plan. It’s obviously that you did a lot of studying.

I’ve crunched some numbers in Excel, etc. Do you mind PM’ing me (PM = private msg) so I can tell you what I did w/ the Excel model?

Sofia, personally I would not train 4 days in a row. Even though you may alternate for instance upper body and lower body, you get at each workout a sort of “overall” fatigue. Therefore I would suggest no more than 2 days in a row. For the possibility to adapt ABBH it’s better to receive an advice from CW. Anyway there are productive 3 (monday,tuesday, thursday)or even 2 days (monday,thursday)per week workouts.

To get good muscles I would choose compound lifts and proper recovery.
Hope that helps !

It is early and I just woke up so I am trying to remember what I was going to touch on so excuse me if it gets a little broken.

First off great detailed posts. As far as the eating befor w/o. Just make sure you are not on an empty tank befor ABBH. So yes if you are doing it right when you wake the shake an hour or two befor you get up would be great.

The decline situps. Yes if you need weight add it. One thing to watch with these though is a common mistake for newbies to this movement. Make sure you concentrate the movements to your abs by curling the shoulders up and crunching the body, using the abs to move you. It is very common for ppl to concentrate most/all the movement to the hips which will have you moving more weight but not hitting the abs. Concentrate on form then decide if you need weight. It can be an eye opener.

Ok. The surge as one of your six meals. Well u can count it as a meal or not. Doesnt really matter. Just make sure you count the K/cals and macros. If you do count it as a meal just remember there is no reason you cant have seven meals in a day, or even more. 6 meals is just a good minimum that will assure you are getting many small feedings to keep the metabolism on fire all day. 7,8,9 even better as long as you are staying within the macro/cal breakdown.

Um what else. Dips with chairs are great. Pull ups on the van sounds kinda tough. A strong clothes pole in a closet would work. If you really want to work on grip then doorway pull ups are a great one, tough though. You can also use a door. Their will be added resistance from the friction of rubbing on the door on the concentric motion and less on the eccentric due to the same.

Deads, those could be tough on the road. A few things to consider. A backpack/book bag. Throw your sandbags, or DB’s in it put it on and squat ATG. This can be great. Another option many overlook is stepups. Great at concentrating on each leg seperatly. With the same loaded book bag if you need weight. Find a surface that you can barely lift your foot on to and then step up, concentrate on good form and try not to assist each leg and try a slow eccentric.

Well I am sure I missed something but that is the stuff I remember from your ?'s.

Once again great post. You can tell you have done your research, not just looking to be handed the answers on a silver platter.

Welcome to the forum and hope some of this helped.


thanks again guys

First off great detailed posts. As far as the eating befor w/o. Just make sure you are not on an empty tank befor ABBH. So yes if you are doing it right when you wake the shake an hour or two befor you get up would be great

so having only 1/2 a serving of surge immediatley beforehand is not enough correct?
the food needs to be circulating in the body for a while?

still wondering about the raised HSL from HIIT done in the a.m. as well,
the reports I’ve read says eat carbs in A.m due to good “absorption” but then eating carbs puts you out of HSL as well, so which would you guys consider more important or optimal?

so far so good, did my first HIIT in a long time today, phew…talk about sucking wind :slight_smile:


The 1/2 surge is going to do a great deal at stopping catabolism. Will probably do the job as long as it isnt to long of a w/o. One in which all the surge is used up.

As far as the HIIT and what to consume afterward. I have done it both ways. That is P+C and P+F after with the same results from each. The jury is still out on this/ conflicting opinions of course. But either way your HR is going to stay elevated and you will continue burning a higher amount of k/cals and fat for hours post HIIT. I simply like doing my HIIT in the AM and getting my P+C’s over in the AM, and P+F @ night. So that is the way it goes for me. Give it a try.

Hope that helps.

You may also consider drinking a large amount of that 1/2 surge befor the w/o and then sipping the rest throughout. The main thing though is to just NOT to go in totally empty and it sound like you are doing great there.


guess I’m on my way then :slight_smile: