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Thoughts on This 'Power Look' Training Plan?

Hi CT, all,

I was wondering what you thought about the below program…

Im still training for the power look, although benching is out of the question for now because of a recurring shoulder problem.

I always do well when focusing on getting stronger on 3 lifts. So with that in mind, I’ve been thinking about doing the below split…

Day 1) Squat + Clean focus

*Squats:
Ramp to 3rTM (small jumps)
3-5x5@90%
*Power Cleans:
Ramp to 3rTM (small jumps)
3-5x5@90%
*Leg Extensions
3x12-15

Day 2) Press focus

*Military Press
Ramp to 3rTM (small jumps)
3-5x5@90%
*Dips
8x8, 30’’, gironda style
*Curls
8x8, 30", gironda style

Day 3) OFF or Cardio/farmers walks

REPEAT

So its a push/pull split with biceps on push day.

Focusing on squats cleans and press. -I start the ramp for each with 5 sets of 3 @50% of Max speed sets, then I carry on ramping as normal

I still love ramping, and heavy work work with the main lifts after, but added dips and curls for arm growth as these are my weak points…

Obviously I’m in a calorie surplus, revolving around peri nutrition.

CT what are your thoughts as far as size and strength on this program?

Any one else’s thoughts are much appreciated :slight_smile:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
Im still training for the power look, although benching is out of the question for now because of a recurring shoulder problem.
[/quote]

Why no dedicated shoulder rehab or upper back work?

Personally I’d spend part of one of those days just pounding the mid traps and rear delts with reverse flyes, facepulls, rows to the chest. After that, I’d think about some lat work. And do band dislocates and pullaparts daily.

Snatch Grip High Pull
By Coach Thibs
Look it up

[quote]young n wrote:
Snatch Grip High Pull
By Coach Thibs
Look it up[/quote]

i spent a good 3-4 months dedicated to high pulls -highly recommend for anyone who hasn’t tried!- but i wan’t to change things up with a different type of pull, so i’ve chosen a clean variation.

i did the layer system for a while and enjoyed it, i now want to implement what i’ve learnt into a more ‘typical’ system i.e. push pull split.

i’ve been doing this workout for 2 weeks with already great results - squat up 5kg, cleans up 12.5kg (due to being a newbie to the movement) and press up 2.5kg.

chest and calves noticeably bigger, arms up .3inches…

so i know this works (for me atleast), i guess i was wondering what CT/others would add or change which i can implement once i start to stall.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
Im still training for the power look, although benching is out of the question for now because of a recurring shoulder problem.
[/quote]

Why no dedicated shoulder rehab or upper back work?

Personally I’d spend part of one of those days just pounding the mid traps and rear delts with reverse flyes, facepulls, rows to the chest. After that, I’d think about some lat work. And do band dislocates and pullaparts daily.[/quote]

cleans directly work upper back and rear delts…?

honestly its not the rehab i need, i’ve done A LOT of that, to the point where my rear delts fire up like a tinder block on just about any pulling movement - a heavy pull up session will make my rear delts sore just as much as lats/bi’s.

the reason i don’t have any vertical pulling (lats) is because my lats are my most developed part, so i want to bring up other areas to balance out.

i know i said benching is out of the question, but that’s fine for me -i don’t compete, so i don’t mind not benching, i’m happy to get strong and presses and dips :slight_smile:

I disagree on excluding upper body pulling. I am a strong believer in balance, even if it’s as simple as just sneaking a set of pull-ups in between each set of pressing. In fact, that’s what I do myself.
Second, I disagree with omitting a bodypart entirely because you think it’s developed enough. Even on CT’s I-Bodybuilder plan he included minimal amounts of work on most movement patterns to maintain musculature.
Not benching is fine, although I question how you can perform dips and overhead presses with an injury that keeps you from benching. But I’m an “overhead” guy too so I’m not trying to argue that point.

I would recommend adding a set of pull-ups in between each set of overhead presses and a set of band pull aparts or face pulls in between each set of dips.

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
cleans directly work upper back and rear delts…?[/quote]

Yeah, I know.

For what it’s worth, I did say “dedicated” work. As in, “isolation-like” movements, and a fair amount of volume. But I suppose I was vague.

It was just that you had dedicated arm work in addition to cleans, squats and presses… so I was asking why you didn’t have dedicated upper back work too.

When you say shoulder issues two things come to mind… upper biceps tendon, and rotator cuff impingement. Both of which can be exacerbated by having the shoulders more rolled forward. Since you can do overhead presses, I’d think it’s more likely to be biceps tendons rather than RC.

But, I mean, may not matter at all. I just tend to think that there’s nothing wrong with having “too strong” of an upper back.

[quote]GraniteJack wrote:
I disagree on excluding upper body pulling. I am a strong believer in balance, even if it’s as simple as just sneaking a set of pull-ups in between each set of pressing. In fact, that’s what I do myself.
Second, I disagree with omitting a bodypart entirely because you think it’s developed enough. Even on CT’s I-Bodybuilder plan he included minimal amounts of work on most movement patterns to maintain musculature.
Not benching is fine, although I question how you can perform dips and overhead presses with an injury that keeps you from benching. But I’m an “overhead” guy too so I’m not trying to argue that point.

I would recommend adding a set of pull-ups in between each set of overhead presses and a set of band pull aparts or face pulls in between each set of dips. [/quote]

thanks for your comments,

i’m not a massive fan of staggered sets (pull ups in between pressing etc) but maybe i should do a few sub max sets of chin ups before every workout.

i do band pull aparts every morning anyway to keep my shoulders in check so that should be ok.

i know what you mean about dips and press ok, but not bench. its hard to explain but anything between incline bench and low decline bench just doesn’t feel right. but like you i’m an overhead guy, and with dips i feel it gives me a fairly ‘complete’ pressing workout.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:
cleans directly work upper back and rear delts…?[/quote]

Yeah, I know.

For what it’s worth, I did say “dedicated” work. As in, “isolation-like” movements, and a fair amount of volume. But I suppose I was vague.

It was just that you had dedicated arm work in addition to cleans, squats and presses… so I was asking why you didn’t have dedicated upper back work too.

When you say shoulder issues two things come to mind… upper biceps tendon, and rotator cuff impingement. Both of which can be exacerbated by having the shoulders more rolled forward. Since you can do overhead presses, I’d think it’s more likely to be biceps tendons rather than RC.

But, I mean, may not matter at all. I just tend to think that there’s nothing wrong with having “too strong” of an upper back.[/quote]

i hate doing isolation work, which is why i don’t do it.

i can’t remember the last time i curled or performed leg extensions! -but its for that exact reason why i’m adding them in… a new stimulus which should give me the results i’m looking for (bigger arms and thighs).

-admittedly i did HDL (5,4,3,2,1) work on hammer curls during the layer system, but that was fairly minimal-

i do band pull aparts every morning to keep my shoulders in check so rear delts are getting some attention :slight_smile:

  1. I would put power cleans before squats

  2. The front squat complements the power clean more than the back squat

  3. After much experimentation I prefer to ramp using moderate jumps… taking about 5 sets to reach the top weight

  4. For the power look I prefer the push press over the strict press

  5. If you have shoulder problems bad enough to stop benching, don’t do dips… especially Gironda dips which are even harder on the shoulder joint… I saw that you are fine with it, so maybe just keep an eye out for some pain

  6. For maximum “power look” results you need either the high pull or deadlift in there

  7. I agree that you need some upper body pulling in there… something like:

A)
Power clean ramp to 3RM then 3 x 5
Front squat ramp to 3RM then 3 x 5
Pull-ups (weighted if possible) 3 x 8-10
Barbell row 3 x 8-10

B)
Push press ramp to 3RM then 3 x 5
Reverse band decline bench 3 x 4-6 or Dips 8 x 8
Shoulder rehab work

C)
Deadlift ramp to 3RM, then 3 x 5
Snatch-grip high pull from the hang 5 x 5
Barbell row, snatch grip 3 x 8-10

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

  1. I would put power cleans before squats

  2. The front squat complements the power clean more than the back squat

  3. After much experimentation I prefer to ramp using moderate jumps… taking about 5 sets to reach the top weight

  4. For the power look I prefer the push press over the strict press

  5. If you have shoulder problems bad enough to stop benching, don’t do dips… especially Gironda dips which are even harder on the shoulder joint… I saw that you are fine with it, so maybe just keep an eye out for some pain

  6. For maximum “power look” results you need either the high pull or deadlift in there

  7. I agree that you need some upper body pulling in there… something like:

A)
Power clean ramp to 3RM then 3 x 5
Front squat ramp to 3RM then 3 x 5
Pull-ups (weighted if possible) 3 x 8-10
Barbell row 3 x 8-10

B)
Push press ramp to 3RM then 3 x 5
Reverse band decline bench 3 x 4-6 or Dips 8 x 8
Shoulder rehab work

C)
Deadlift ramp to 3RM, then 3 x 5
Snatch-grip high pull from the hang 5 x 5
Barbell row, snatch grip 3 x 8-10
[/quote]

thanks CT this is helpful!

when i wrote ‘gironda style’ for dips and curls, i only meant that i would perform 8x8 with honest weight, 30 second rest… i am using normal chest dips and hammer curls.

i will have a good think about implementing your recommendation soon, it looks awesome :slight_smile:

do you feel power cleans before squats will affect squat performance? - how would you compare size gains in the hang clean vs high pulls? -i imagine the high pulls help delts more, but the clean helps upper back more?

your thoughts are greatly appreciated :slight_smile:

[quote]lboro21 wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

  1. I would put power cleans before squats

  2. The front squat complements the power clean more than the back squat

  3. After much experimentation I prefer to ramp using moderate jumps… taking about 5 sets to reach the top weight

  4. For the power look I prefer the push press over the strict press

  5. If you have shoulder problems bad enough to stop benching, don’t do dips… especially Gironda dips which are even harder on the shoulder joint… I saw that you are fine with it, so maybe just keep an eye out for some pain

  6. For maximum “power look” results you need either the high pull or deadlift in there

  7. I agree that you need some upper body pulling in there… something like:

A)
Power clean ramp to 3RM then 3 x 5
Front squat ramp to 3RM then 3 x 5
Pull-ups (weighted if possible) 3 x 8-10
Barbell row 3 x 8-10

B)
Push press ramp to 3RM then 3 x 5
Reverse band decline bench 3 x 4-6 or Dips 8 x 8
Shoulder rehab work

C)
Deadlift ramp to 3RM, then 3 x 5
Snatch-grip high pull from the hang 5 x 5
Barbell row, snatch grip 3 x 8-10
[/quote]

thanks CT this is helpful!

when i wrote ‘gironda style’ for dips and curls, i only meant that i would perform 8x8 with honest weight, 30 second rest… i am using normal chest dips and hammer curls.

i will have a good think about implementing your recommendation soon, it looks awesome :slight_smile:

do you feel power cleans before squats will affect squat performance? - how would you compare size gains in the hang clean vs high pulls? -i imagine the high pulls help delts more, but the clean helps upper back more?

your thoughts are greatly appreciated :)[/quote]

The power clean will have less detrimental effect on the squat than the squat will have on the power clean… it could even potentiate your CNS for the squat.

did you have in mind an a,b,c,b,a,b,c,b,a… rotation of these sessions?

ok so three weeks in…

squats now up 10kg. -had 2 sessions since my OP. really psyched about the gains, prioritising the squat and upping the frequency to 2x per week is working wonders.

new PR in press which is nice. lateral delts starting to fill out near the insertion, i think this is due to the combination of heavy pressing with cleans, especially since cleans are a new movement for me.

arms now .4inches up, not sure if this is 100% accurate since i am measuring them myself, but shirts are a little tighter on arms and chest -again this could be psychological… scales up 3lb since i started though, BF down .1% (so i’m assuming zero change in BF).

i’ve taken on board everyones notes -starting each session with 5 sets of max pull ups, EMOTM style, getting in around 35-40.

finishing each session with 3x20 face pulls, really light, focusing on the squeeze.