T Nation

Thoughts on Program


#1

Hey gang. Long time lurker, first post.
I've been working on this program design for a few months now and although it works great I need some advice on a few things.

The design looks like this:

Day 1:
Power rows 5x3 ( basic seated row with a lot more body english than usual)
Bar2bar 5x5 ( basicaly a recline row set up where a second bar is located above the first - pulling hard enough to be able to grab the second bar)

KB Bridge press 5x3
Klapping push up /w elastik going over the body for resistance 5x5

Zercher squat 5x3
Band shoot 5x3 ( basic shoot with bands as resistance)

Day 2

Pull ups 5x3
Klapping pull ups 5x3

Dips 5x3
Med ball drop throws 5x5 ( lying on the floor with hips liftet up a medball is being dropped from above into the hands. the ball is absorbet and thrown back up again)

Front squat 5x3
Band shoot 5x3

Day 3

Single row 5x3
Singe arm recline rows 5x5 ( knee joint at 90 degrees and hips in line with torso. makes it less hard and more eksplosive)

Unilateral flat bench db press 5x3
Smith machine throws ( pressing the bar as hard as possible, releasing the bar at the end making it fly up) 5x5

Zercher squat 5x3
Jump squats 5x3
Band shoots 5x3

Now to my questions..

The program is designet to give me power and make me eksplosive and so far has done so but..
would there be better exercise parrings than nose i have parred so far like maybe parring the power rows with the klapping pull ups or the single arm recline rows etc?

Would there be better exercises in general, and what would those be ?

How about the set rep scheme? i remember reading articles by Waterbury stating that power exercises and explosive exercises should have about 5 sets and no more than 5 reps. I have been trying about different schemes, but what are your thoughts and what does your know how tell you? Should there be more or less reps in the power exercise contra the eksplosive?

Should I incorperate accessory exercises for prehab/rehab like external rotations etc. and where would these fit in with the current design?

Generel thoughts on the design?


#2

Zercher squats?! switch that out man!


#3

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
Zercher squats?! switch that out man! [/quote]

I should mention I’m a competitive grappler so the zercher squat is there for that reason more than anything else.
Don’t know if that changes your mind or not but i’d like to know why u would remove it in any case ?


#4

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
Zercher squats?! switch that out man! [/quote]
… Zercher squats are fine… It just requires a fat bar, or something wrapped against the bar (or something wrapped around the elbows) to spread the pressure.

All I can say is vary the rep range a little more, and do more heavy traditional exercises. Various barbell rows, weighted body weight exercises (chin ups, pull ups, ect) and heavy pressing exercises such as barbell bench and overhead press should all be staples of your training.


#5

[quote]Boondog wrote:

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
Zercher squats?! switch that out man! [/quote]

I should mention I’m a competitive grappler so the zercher squat is there for that reason more than anything else.
Don’t know if that changes your mind or not but i’d like to know why u would remove it in any case ?[/quote]
He suffers from pussyitis, and what others who suffer from the same tell him. Zerchers are great for variety, and to train your hamstrings, glutes, and abs.


#6

[quote]DSSG wrote:

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
Zercher squats?! switch that out man! [/quote]
… Zercher squats are fine… It just requires a fat bar, or something wrapped against the bar (or something wrapped around the elbows) to spread the pressure.

All I can say is vary the rep range a little more, and do more heavy traditional exercises. Various barbell rows, weighted body weight exercises (chin ups, pull ups, ect) and heavy pressing exercises such as barbell bench and overhead press should all be staples of your training. [/quote]

Varing up or down ?
Throughout the 3 day design I have pull ups, recline rows, single rows, cable rows, dips, push ups, kb chest press, unilateral/1 hand db chest press and zercher squat. I wouold say there is plenty of bw and basic power building exercises not counting the overhead presses. Which would be recommended taking the current design into account and preferebly why ?
Reason for not implementing the regular bb bench press is an old shoulder injury which only shows it self during that exercise, so even though i would like to use it i can’t.


#7

appreciate the comments so far but come on guys I need some feedback and i posted on the tmag forum for a reason…


#8

Holy smorrebrod, a fellow Scandinavian.

Here’s couple of exercises you could use.

After Zercher squats --> broad jump (jump forward) or box jumps or depth jumps just to vary the shoots, which are of course more sport specific. Maybe try jumping up from kneeled postition. That’s an explosive movement what could be used in guard or scramble.

After unilatera or bilateral presses --> med ball chest pass (one or to handed).

Have you read Ross Enamait’s stuff (for example Never Gymless). Check his pages if you haven’t.

Good luck with your training. Post the final program when finished planning.


#9

[quote]guhkes wrote:
Holy smorrebrod, a fellow Scandinavian.

Here’s couple of exercises you could use.

After Zercher squats --> broad jump (jump forward) or box jumps or depth jumps just to vary the shoots, which are of course more sport specific. Maybe try jumping up from kneeled postition. That’s an explosive movement what could be used in guard or scramble.

After unilatera or bilateral presses --> med ball chest pass (one or to handed).

Have you read Ross Enamait’s stuff (for example Never Gymless). Check his pages if you haven’t.

Good luck with your training. Post the final program when finished planning.[/quote]

Smorrebrod sounds awefull Danish to me, where you from guhkes?

thx for the input. I hadn’t thought of varieng the jumps, but I’m going to implement it and see how it works out.

Regarding the box jumps, how would they translate into actual movement improvement ? I know they are explosive of nature but they are also done with almost straight legs which I don’t see translate all that well into anything else but box jumps. I could be wrong. Am I ?

I did try the kneeling jump up a few weeks but i didn’t fancy it though. Primarely a hip dominent movement right ?

I’m not sure about this one “After unilatera or bilateral presses --> med ball chest pass (one or to handed)” the med ball chest pass? can u describe it ?

Yeah I know ross’ stuff. haven’t made up an oppinion yet…


#10

[quote]Boondog wrote:
Hey gang. Long time lurker, first post.
I’ve been working on this program design for a few months now and although it works great I need some advice on a few things.

The design looks like this:

Day 1:
Power rows 5x3 ( basic seated row with a lot more body english than usual)
Bar2bar 5x5 ( basicaly a recline row set up where a second bar is located above the first - pulling hard enough to be able to grab the second bar)

KB Bridge press 5x3
Klapping push up /w elastik going over the body for resistance 5x5

Zercher squat 5x3
Band shoot 5x3 ( basic shoot with bands as resistance)

Day 2

Pull ups 5x3
Klapping pull ups 5x3

Dips 5x3
Med ball drop throws 5x5 ( lying on the floor with hips liftet up a medball is being dropped from above into the hands. the ball is absorbet and thrown back up again)

Front squat 5x3
Band shoot 5x3

Day 3

Single row 5x3
Singe arm recline rows 5x5 ( knee joint at 90 degrees and hips in line with torso. makes it less hard and more eksplosive)

Unilateral flat bench db press 5x3
Smith machine throws ( pressing the bar as hard as possible, releasing the bar at the end making it fly up) 5x5

Zercher squat 5x3
Jump squats 5x3
Band shoots 5x3
[/quote]

Instant observation is that there’s no hamstring work in here. If you’re going to be lifting, throwing in deadlifts or good mornings or pull throughs is a good idea. Don’t skip them.

There’s three things that you did not tell us, that the answers to these questions are dependent on:

  1. What sport are you training for?
  2. What does your sport specific skills work look like?
  3. What is your goal with this program?

Answer these if you can.

[quote]
Should I incorperate accessory exercises for prehab/rehab like external rotations etc. and where would these fit in with the current design?

Generel thoughts on the design?[/quote]

Yes, and at the end of the workouts is where I put them. YWTL’s, etc. should be incorporated


#11

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Boondog wrote:
Hey gang. Long time lurker, first post.
I’ve been working on this program design for a few months now and although it works great I need some advice on a few things.

The design looks like this:

Day 1:
Power rows 5x3 ( basic seated row with a lot more body english than usual)
Bar2bar 5x5 ( basicaly a recline row set up where a second bar is located above the first - pulling hard enough to be able to grab the second bar)

KB Bridge press 5x3
Klapping push up /w elastik going over the body for resistance 5x5

Zercher squat 5x3
Band shoot 5x3 ( basic shoot with bands as resistance)

Day 2

Pull ups 5x3
Klapping pull ups 5x3

Dips 5x3
Med ball drop throws 5x5 ( lying on the floor with hips liftet up a medball is being dropped from above into the hands. the ball is absorbet and thrown back up again)

Front squat 5x3
Band shoot 5x3

Day 3

Single row 5x3
Singe arm recline rows 5x5 ( knee joint at 90 degrees and hips in line with torso. makes it less hard and more eksplosive)

Unilateral flat bench db press 5x3
Smith machine throws ( pressing the bar as hard as possible, releasing the bar at the end making it fly up) 5x5

Zercher squat 5x3
Jump squats 5x3
Band shoots 5x3
[/quote]

Instant observation is that there’s no hamstring work in here. If you’re going to be lifting, throwing in deadlifts or good mornings or pull throughs is a good idea. Don’t skip them.

There’s three things that you did not tell us, that the answers to these questions are dependent on:

  1. What sport are you training for?
  2. What does your sport specific skills work look like?
  3. What is your goal with this program?

Answer these if you can.

[quote]
Should I incorperate accessory exercises for prehab/rehab like external rotations etc. and where would these fit in with the current design?

Generel thoughts on the design?[/quote]

Yes, and at the end of the workouts is where I put them. YWTL’s, etc. should be incorporated[/quote]

Hey man thx for commenting.

That same observation hit me just earlier tdy and so I added gluteham raises after tds workout. I did implement DL’s at the beginning but a tear in my menisc recently made that completely impossible though. Used to have pretty decent 400lbs Dl at 160lbs.

to your questions:
1: This is purely for grappling arts. more specific, no-gi bjj and wrestling.
2: sport specific skill work is done in the gym/dojo etc. the only outside skill work is the band shoots, which really isn’t skill work imo.
3: the goal is to get strong as a motherf… while building eksplosiveness as well.

The design is the culmination of years of reading on this site, watching reknowned trainers do thier thing on youtube, books and personal experience through personal coaching with guys like steve maxwell for one.

Mostly what is seen are the things i have picked up from Waterbury’s rticles and jonathan chaimberg from some of his video work.

So far I’m really happy with the design and results, went from a 90kg row to a 130kg in no more than 2 months, went from doing kb presses with 24kg’s to 32 without breaking a sweat etc. pretty substantial strength gain. But i’m always wondering if there’s room for improvement, is there something i’m forgetting and will that eventually mean a muscle imballance or dysfunction. I had a shoulder injury that was due to a muscle imballance and I really don’t want to go there again.

What about rest periods ??
At the moment i have 60s between the first set adding 10s every one after that so it looks like this

1’st set pull ups
60s rest
1’st set klapping pull ups
60s

2’nd set pull ups
70s and so on.

I’m a bit uncertain of this protocal bcs it ends up consuming alot of time but anything less and i’m seriously toast. the least amount i have been able to work with was 60s flat in every rest period which i also beilive Waterbury talks about in his hammer down strength program portion. still though, my strength gets sapped quiclky due to the adding of weight on every set while the rest stays. if I use the 60s only protocol my strength decreses alot after the 3’rd set and if doing the pull up parring my klapping pull ups really aren’t that explosive anymore.


#12

[quote]Boondog wrote:

[quote]guhkes wrote:

After unilateral or bilateral presses --> med ball chest pass (one or to handed)[/quote]

I’m not sure about this one “After unilatera or bilateral presses --> med ball chest pass (one or to handed)” the med ball chest pass? can u describe it ? [/quote]

Yes, I wrote like 5-year old.

Two handed chest pass: http://youtu.be/shKTTg2K-5A

One handed throw being like a shot put. Throw the ball to the wall as hard as possible.

To work your hamstrings, some sort of deadlift variation and broad jump is a good combo.

[quote]Boondog wrote:

to your questions:
1: This is purely for grappling arts. more specific, no-gi bjj and wrestling.
2: sport specific skill work is done in the gym/dojo etc. the only outside skill work is the band shoots, which really isn’t skill work imo.
3: the goal is to get strong as a motherf… while building eksplosiveness as well. [/quote]

Read number 3. Why ditch box jumps, if you know they make you explosive and you skill work is done in dojo (number 2).

How about short sprints? All around explosivness, works about any body part.

Joel Jamieson has also good training protocols.


#13

Final pruduct will look like this for the time being…

Day 1:
Power rows 6x3
Bar2bar 6x5/6x3 - will be changeing the reps when ever i feel like it between 5 and 3.

KB Bridge press 6x3
Klapping push up /w elastik going over the body for resistance 6x3/6x5

Zercher squat 6x3
Jump squats 6x3/6x5
Band shoot 6x3 ( basic shoot with bands as resistance)

Day 2

Jump shrugs 5x3

Pull ups 6x3
Klapping pull ups 6x3

Dips 6x3
Klapping pull ups 6x5/6x3

No legs, instead I’ll be chosing a few of the following exercises:
Hypers
Glute ham raises
Band pull aparts
Skin the cat
hand stand holds
In & external rotations
Shoulder press of some sort
Scapula push ups / push up plus

Day 3

Single row 6x3
Singe arm recline pulls 6x5/6x3

Unilateral flat bench db press 5x3
Smith machine bar throws 6x3/6x5

Zercher squat 6x3
Lunge Jumps 6x2 (each leg)
Band shoots 6x3

In general the band shoots are destuctive on the knees and even though I have a somewhat soft mat on the ground to impact on and i have knee softeners, protectors on it still takes a toll. So band shoots will be taken out from time to time to give some relief to the knees. The same goes in general for leg training since I had a pretty substantial accident with my left leg that left me with cruches not long ago. Doctors said I would be looking forward to having a stabilizaing metalic brace on along with cruches for at least 8 weeks before being able to take it off completely again. back on the mats two weeks later though and doctors couldn’t see anything wrong on the scans anymore. talk about regenetative properties :wink: still a bit paranoid though so whenever I feel the slightest I emidiately stop what ever leg training i’m doing.

Ergrading the last post, I’ll try and implement the box jumps and broad jumps in a few weeks time and see how it feels after a month or so