I’d like to give this high(er) frequency thing a try and see how I react to it. I know that I want to bench all 3 days with the floor press being the 2nd day. I also know I want to do some kind of squat variation 2 times a week.
I’m having trouble figuring out the best place for the deadlift though. At first I was thinking I could just throw it in on Wednesday and squat Monday/Friday. But I feel like my deadlift has pretty good potential and wonder if I should fit it in twice a week?
So I guess my question is how would you put a little more focus on the deadlift in a 3 day routine? Is doing it on just Wednesday fine? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
I’ve pretty much always been a build the lift kind of guy, using 531 for most of the past several years with a decent amount of assistance. Although I hope to slowly recomp, I’m happy now with my weight being around 152-154 for the 148 weight class.
Here’s a video of a meet I did a couple months ago if you wanna see how I lift. No record holder by any means but have worked hard for every pound.
I also think there are several ways you could go about this.
If your loading is similar to that of the Sheiko programs (i.e. lower intensity, 3-6 reps typically, many sets), then I’d say go with Ramo’s first suggestion, or something similar. Even if your training is more similar to RTS style, something similar to what he laid out could work (although I would prefer another squat/deadlift movement instead of two pressing movements in one day, but that’s just me).
If you want to do very high intensity training (pseudo-“Bulgarian”), then I’d recommend starting out with:
Day 1:
Squat variation
Bench var
Day 2:
Deadlift var
Bench var
Day 3:
Squat var
Bench var
And then the following week have two deadlift sessions and one squat session. This was Curls4Girls recommendation in another thread (the title of the thread was something like “My Bulgarian Program” if you’re curious). I used this method as well and it worked quite well for me. After getting used to the intensity after several weeks/months, you can add in a third movement each day how you see fit. What’s worked for me is working up to squatting 3 times a week and deadlifting twice. My recommendation once you start deadlifting twice every week would be to start with one of the sessions on the lighter side and work up the intensity from there. I would also recommend getting into the gym 4 times a week if you can to spread it out a bit, but if you can’t you’ll be able to make 3x / week work if you have enough time in the gym to do all three lifts in a session.
I should have mentioned in first post, but I am definitely still going with intensity over volume. I love working out, but cannot be in the gym for 2-3 hours doing ungodly amounts of volume. Typically my weight training is 60-75 minutes and I plan on keeping it in that range.
Ramo- I do kind of like your second option so long as you’re not talking about trying to do all out maxes. I assume you mean working up to several heavy good form singles and calling it a day?
OmniStyx- I like that idea quite a bit. Seems like a good rotation to do if you still want some intensity like I do. Could maybe rotate like so…
Monday- medium squat
Wednesday- light deadlift
Friday- heavy squat
Monday- medium deadlift
Wednesday- light squat
Friday- heavy deadlift
I know thats not really high frequency, but it is higher frequency for me anyway.
Research the Bulgarian methods. They do high frequency/high intensity. You could look at Vladimir Volkov and his high frequency bench method. I used it and it worked very well.
High frequency is all dependent upon your recovery and loading parameters. Good luck to you!
Set a day for thats your squat day, use deadlift variation after as acessory. Stifflegged/deficits/snatchgrip
Set a day that s deadlift day, use after as a time to do another squat variation. Preferably more quad dominate but w.e works Pause squats/highbar/as a slot to squat again however you need.
The activation of the main lift first accels the second lift. Works well.
[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:
For the bench I dont really have a specific intensity protocol yet, but I’m thinking about starting out with these variations.
[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:
Monday- medium squat
Wednesday- light deadlift
Friday- heavy squat
Monday- medium deadlift
Wednesday- light squat
Friday- heavy deadlift
[/quote]
That looks like it could work for just starting out with higher frequency. I personally don’t get much from light squat work because I think it’s easier to go heavier more frequently than it is for deadlifts, but I guess you’ll just have to see for yourself.
Also, as far as bench variations go it really depends on your weaknesses. Some that I’ve used in my rotation include 3 count and 5 count pauses, competition pauses, pauses 1 inch off the chest, Fat Gripz bench, floor press, Fat Gripz floor press, close grip bench, wide grip bench, incline bench, bench against bands, and pin presses from chest level. Some of these have helped, some of these have not. I’m not a great bencher by ANY stretch of the imagination, but I just wanted to throw other ideas out there that you may want to try. You can also do shoulder pressing variations, which I personally don’t do often besides an occasional log press because of serious GH joint issues.
I don’t know how much you like the idea of concurrent or modified concurrent styles of training (like Westside), but it’s possible to do high frequency. Here’s potentially how it would work out:
Monday: ME squat, RE bench (comp style), DE Deadlift
Wednesday: DE Squat, ME bench, RE DL
Friday: ME Deadlift, DE Bench, RE Squat
The only suggestions I’d make is instead of doing a true ME, I’d do a modified ME. That is leave a rep or two on your top set. You could even do waves or blocks while still maintaining the basic set up to add an emphasis to different qualities at different times.
Also, with the DE work I’d stick with the comp movement and take more to Mike T’s idea of speed work so you get some practice.
Either after the main work, or on non workout days I’d do some stuff for balance and injury prevention like arm, upper back, RC, etc really whatever you personally need at the moment. But opinions seem to vary a lot about including this kind of ‘fluff’.
I know I’m far from the strongest but what I like about this template is even if I’m not doing the comp movement frequently, I am keeping the basic movement pattern grooved. I get in some of that Bulgarian daily max type training, but I get to rotate the movements so I don’t destroy myself from overuse type injuries in the process through the ME work. I get to practice the comp lifts with weights that I can handle week in and week out without getting hurt. And also, there’s a good chance to build muscle with big movements through the main RE work.
[quote]osu122975 wrote:
High frequency is all dependent upon your recovery and loading parameters. Good luck to you![/quote]
Exactly. From my experience with higher-frequency stuff, there is also a period of neural adaptation when you feel like you’re overtraining. But you need to train through this, since it goes away if you keep up with your recovery protocol.
I’ve always made my best squat gains squatting three times per week.
A couple of yall have mentioned weak points on bench. Maybe I’m wrong, but I purposefully try not to think too much about that. IMO, for me and most raw lifters, focusing on the bottom of the lift is the main thing we need to worry about. I figure any variation thats more difficult will help.
Obviously pausing longer makes the lift hard. And then the floor press takes some of the stretch reflex out too and helps with starting strength(bar is only an inch or two off chest at bottom). Tng and more dramatic overloading variations like the slingshot definitely have a place though. I just want to start off simple if I go this route. Also, I should say that I do all my benching with a close grip, so that gets rid of some variations I can do. Mostly do it because I’m really just stronger that way, but also because the j-hooks are to high so I lose my tightness when I unrack with a wider grip.
Some good tips on how to work the deads and squats in that I will look over this week. I’m on a deload this next week so I will give this type of training a lot of thought. I may decide to stay with what I’m doing for a little longer, but feel at some point I need to do higher frequency to reach a higher level.
Fletch- That seems like a simple enough idea on paper. I’m not sure I would be ready to do all 3 lifts like that throughout the week though. I will say I do think the deadlift would fare better in a westside type method than the other lifts.
I just remembered. If you really liked 5/3/1, Wendler has templates for for full body training 3x a week and even lays out how to gradually work into it.
It was an article on this site but I can’t find it anymore. There are templates in one or more of his books.
Have you given a look into any of the Sheiko routines? They allow for benching all three days, squatting twice and working on the deadlift at least once a week. There is a link out there that leads to and Excel SPreadsheet with about 8-10 routines on it. If you are interested, I could try and locate it for you
[quote]Chicksan wrote:
Have you given a look into any of the Sheiko routines? They allow for benching all three days, squatting twice and working on the deadlift at least once a week. There is a link out there that leads to and Excel SPreadsheet with about 8-10 routines on it. If you are interested, I could try and locate it for you[/quote]
Even better, there’s a new forum around that’s run by Sheiko that has even more info. (I won’t link it, but you can kind it on your own easily)
[quote]barbedwired wrote:
Set a day for thats your squat day, use deadlift variation after as acessory. Stifflegged/deficits/snatchgrip
Set a day that s deadlift day, use after as a time to do another squat variation. Preferably more quad dominate but w.e works Pause squats/highbar/as a slot to squat again however you need.
The activation of the main lift first accels the second lift. Works well.[/quote]
This is pretty similar to what I do, On my heavy squat day ill do stiff leg DL, and DL light that week, and do deficit and pause squats for assistance. On heavy DL the following week I do block pulls and back extensions. And squat lighter that week and do front squat as assistance. So either way im pulling 2x and squatting 2x. For pressing I alternate heavy to light week by week with OHP, and on OHP day ive added in DB pressing from a low incline.
I decided to just attempt something extremely simple to get me used to doing full body again and more frequency. I’m rotating 2 main workouts for now on 3 days a week training.
Workout A
Deadlift
Floor Press
Workout B
Squat
Bench
I started this week and am working with weights around 65% doing sets of 5 to accumulate some volume.
