T Nation

Thoughts On My Cut Options

Pharma
#1

So I’ve been happy bulking, because eating is great and not eating is decidedly not. But I genuinely hate how I look because no matter how pleased I am with my shoulders, arms, and back, having even a little gut is something that simply doesn’t make me feel like I’m even getting anywhere. So it’s time to get back to the misery of a calorie deficit. Keep in mind I was once a fat guy who lost 55lbs by being disciplined in the kitchen, so I can do it, I just fucking hate it.

I have my meals all planned and each calorie counted. That part is covered. Deficit will be ~800/d. The question now is what to do as far as the pharma world is concerned. I have a number of options available, just don’t know which one looks best.

On trt so that covers my test and AI. That will remain the same throughout. Hopefully this goes well enough that I can actually do a nice test/something else blast in late January.

Option 1:
Epistane 30/30/40/40/30

Option 2:
Dbol 20/20/20/10/10
(Had good luck on low dose dbol before)

Option 3:
Tbol 20/20/20/20/20
(Can’t go higher than 20 w/o getting migraines; might try 30 but keeping it at 20 is fine with me)
Tbol was used by East German athletes and the doses they took were low compared to today. I’m interested in the increased endurance because I’ll be trying to get more cardio into this routine. Currently doing 90+ minutes a week of LISS.

Option 4:
Just bump my test to 400 (from 160 trt) and stop overthinking everything.

Anyway, would love to hear some of the things that have worked for you guys in the past. I’m open to other non-pharma supplements as well. No stimulants though. I’ll be increasing my ADHD meds back up to something closer to my actual prescribed dose, so that ought to help. I’m currently using the minimum effective dosage, which is about 1/4 of what my doctor has given me. The reason I decreased it in the first place was that it ruined my appetite and that was not helpful when I was bulking. Anyway, thoughts are welcome. Additions, subtractions, criticisms, mockery, etc. Thanks gents.

#2

I have nothing to add but start a log, I’d be eager to hear how it goes.

Epistane is legal is it not (I know it’s not a controlled substance in Aus, hence why it’s still sold on ebay and stuff here). The non C17AA version of epistane (epitiostanol) is used as an anti estrogen/ antinoplastic agent for breast cancer in Japan, we know that the addition of a methyl group at the C17 position can significantly alter a steroids behavior (dbol vs eq, mast vs sdrol etc) however I’d be careful as to not crash you’re E2. Epistane is also likely very harsh on the lipids given it’s c17AA, DHT derived and potentially anti-estrogenic. Given that it’s a designer steroid, not much is known about it, people generally report great vascularity and strength on it, however the look is purely cosmetic and will fade once you go off. Just food for thought, the exact degree of hepatotoxicity is unknown.

#3

So I’ll update this and then periodically add when information is useful.

Started on Epi at 10 for two days, then 20 for four. Wanted to get a feel for any immediate side effects before going higher. Found no issues at either dose, so now I’m on to 30. Bumped my test back up to 200, which was my original TRT. I did this after my latest blood work confirmed that the lower dose was indeed good for HCT (along with a supplement) but bad for trough test levels.

Anyway, eating at a 500-700 calorie deficit and absolutely nothing has changed. Haven’t lost an ounce. The only day where there was meaningful variation of AM weight was the day after I didn’t lift and I ate as I normally do. So all-in-all Is say I have no idea wtf is going on. Maybe the epi is causing some extra glycogen retention or maybe I’m sleep-eating. But it’s interesting because I don’t feel much different despite eating much less than I was used to. Anyway, that’s all I have for now.

#4

Which brand of epistane are you using (or is it UGL epistane). IBE epistane isn’t epistane,
for other brands that have expired/ been exposed to sunglight the compound has been reported to degrade into desoxymethyltestosterone (pheraplex, was common in the PH era).

#5

I won’t say the brand name (I think that’s a no-no here?) but it’s the original one that came to market.

#6

Epistane, to my knowledge isn’t a controlled substance in the US, I know it isn’t specifically listed on the controlled substance list here in Aus (although it is mentioned any substance with a chemical structure similar to testosterone is a controlled substance, however methylepitiostanol isn’t under the list of compounds one cannot import, thus I consider it a loophole/ grey area). I mentioned IBE epistane and it didn’t get taken down so I think you’re okay. However I’ll ask Chris

Also get lipids checked if possible I’m curious to see how badly it wrecks the lipid Pannell, I’d assume it’s up there with stanozolol (C17AA, DHT derived, potentially anti estrogenic.)

@Chris_Colucci is it appropriate to name the brand of a supplement company selling a product which contains a designer steroid if said compound currently isn’t a controlled substance (even post PH ban of 2014, epi wasn’t included, it was taken off the shelves, but the specific drug wasn’t listed in the ban)

#7

Keep in mind my lipids are indestructible. Along with a full head of hair it’s one of the few genetic gifts I’ve been given. 50mg Anavar for 14 weeks did nothing to nudge the numbers in any significant way. I’m talking HDL and LDL difference of two points from baseline. That’s a rounding error. So I’m less worried about that effect of the epi.

Ftr epistane is a banned substance in the US.

#8

Dammit, I’d take something like epi or mestanolone for a couple weeks (say 3-4 wks) to measure the effects on my lipid profile (an experiment of sorts), however I can’t due to my health issues. If I ever get a bill of good health again I’ll try something like that for a reference of how it affects the lipid profile and I’ll post it on here (not much data exists).

Also my bad, I checked out the Congress bill HR 4771, any substance with growth promoting effects similar to testosterone with a similar chemical structure is outright banned.

#9

I hate cutting too. I’m only 5’7" so I feel puny when I cut. I try to bulk to 200lbs every winter and end up cutting down to 180-185lbs in the summer. Bulking is way more fun along with the strength that comes with it.

That’s a big calorie deficit. Let us know how it works. I usually shoot for a little less and go slowly to preserve muscle. Have you ever tried clen? I don’t have access to AAS but I have tried clen which is effective if you can handle the shakes.

#10

Clen is off the menu for me. I’m on an ADD med so there’s no way to mix those two without some kind of added level of danger. It’s funny because despite it being a large deficit I have noticed no change at all. Hoping that I don’t have to ho any lower at this point because being hungry all the damn time makes me unpleasant to be around.

#11

I have the same problem when I don’t eat. I get hangry, irritable, and light headed. I think I may be hypoglycemic… that or just a hypochondriac.

#12

If it a legal over-the-counter supp, it shouldn’t be a problem to discuss (but, as always, no links).