Thoughts on Mark Rippetoe?

People act like standard BBing splits do not have Overhead Press,Squats,Deadlifts,Bench Press or that you can’t learn those movements while you doing a BB split.

You guys make it seem you will only learn those movements if you do a program like Starting Strength. Which makes no fucking sense. You can spend your time learning all of those movements in a standard BB split.

And wouldn’t that lead to more progress because in the realm of BB you need the volume/frequency which starting strenght does not adequately give that.

[quote]AzCats wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
urgh, this again.

Rippetoe writes programs designed around teaching beginner to intermediate lifters the basic barbell lifts…[/quote]
Well said RDS![/quote]

thanks mate

[quote]optheta wrote:
Because people consistently recommend Starting Strength for people who want to get into Bodybuilding. It is a waste of time.[/quote]

that’s hardly Rip’s fault. Blame the guys recommending a program for bodybuilding which the actual program writer has specifically said is not for bodybuilding.

[quote]optheta wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
Every kid who does starting strenght wants to BB so why the FUCK do you do a NONE BBing program.

Biggest waist of my time. [/quote]

Maybe because it’s a great way to build a good strength base needed to put on mass.
[/quote]

Biggest bullshit I have ever heard. [/quote]

Shrug Worked for me.

[quote]optheta wrote:

[quote]JFG wrote:
I will listen to him, over you, any day.

Saying his program doesn’t work, is flawed. It’s not the program, it’s you.

You don’t like it, that is fine. But saying that it is shit is only “your” opinion. Not a fact. You also discredit yourself as an open minded person when you say things like that.

Again, you don’t like it, fine. You do not have to agree with every program you come across.

Also, you don’t like his “writing”? Again, fine. That is your prerogative. It doesn’t make him wrong and you right or vice versa. It means you don’t agree.

Why people get their panties in a knot over such trivialities is just mind boggling.

Cheers[/quote]

Because people consistently recommend Starting Strength for people who want to get into Bodybuilding. It is a waste of time.[/quote]

No one is arguing with you. SS is a a starting strength program. You know that, I know that, he knows that. We are all on the same page. Why are you so bitter about the program and the writer? If “people” are recommending a program that is not correct for the goal, that makes the program wrong? That makes no sense.

[quote]optheta wrote:
Because people consistently recommend Starting Strength for people who want to get into Bodybuilding. It is a waste of time.[/quote]

For a beginner with a background in athletics you may have a point. For a beginner that lacks basic coordination SS is a solid way to get things started.

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
urgh, this again.

Rippetoe writes programs designed around teaching beginner to intermediate lifters the basic barbell lifts. That’s all he does. To say Rippetoe sucks is wrong, because he does what he does exceptionally well. When these discussions come up people point out that his programs are no good for bodybuilding. Rip doesn’t give a shit about bodybuilding. He gives a shit about the basic, barbell lifts, and that’s what he teaches with a huge degree of skill and success.

If you don’t want to do a program based off of the basic BB lifts, then you wouldn’t do one of Rip’s programs. That doesn’t make his programs bad, or make him a bad coach, it just means that your goals are not in line with what Rip teaches. Not everyone that lifts weights wants to get into bodybuilding or cares about things like making sure their rear delts or upper chest don’t lag. Some people just like to squat, bench and clean heavy. For these people, Rip’s programs like SS or the Texas Method are a fine choice for as long as they can progress without needing some kind of periodisation.

And he doesn’t recommend GOMAD for everyone, just the skinny teenage kids that need the calories.

You might not want to do one of his programs, but there is no denying that Rip is exceptional at coaching what he does, and his programs will most definitely get you strong in the basic lifts. If your goals require a different program, then do a different program. That doesn’t mean that there’s anything wrong with Rip’s programs, just that they don’t suit your goals.[/quote]

This should pretty much end the discussion, especially since his programs and teachings have proven to be effective for those who’s goals are in line with the program’s objectives.

Also, he’s the man when it comes to teaching the basic lifts. His book does a terrific job at detailing them. Some of the minor details have been somewhat controversial (for example looking straight/down instead of up when squatting) but that’s just silly people getting their panties in a bunch over minutia. The overall approach is spot on.

[quote]JFG wrote:
I will listen to him, over you, any day.

Saying his program doesn’t work, is flawed. It’s not the program, it’s you.

You don’t like it, that is fine. But saying that it is shit is only “your” opinion. Not a fact. You also discredit yourself as an open minded person when you say things like that.

Again, you don’t like it, fine. You do not have to agree with every program you come across.

Also, you don’t like his “writing”? Again, fine. That is your prerogative. It doesn’t make him wrong and you right or vice versa. It means you don’t agree.

Why people get their panties in a knot over such trivialities is just mind boggling.

Cheers[/quote]

??

SS sucks for BBing

People come off SS looking fat(people who do it right) and then have to catch up their lagging body parts.

It just seems idiotic if you have the intent to bodybuild, that you are going to intentionally skip lifts because “squatting works your biceps” or whatever ridiculous claims Rippetoe wants to make

[quote]optheta wrote:
People act like standard BBing splits do not have Overhead Press,Squats,Deadlifts,Bench Press or that you can’t learn those movements while you doing a BB split.

You guys make it seem you will only learn those movements if you do a program like Starting Strength. Which makes no fucking sense. You can spend your time learning all of those movements in a standard BB split.

And wouldn’t that lead to more progress because in the realm of BB you need the volume/frequency which starting strenght does not adequately give that.[/quote]

yeah, people act like BBing routines can’t have basic barbell movements in it.

I think barbell movements are great for putting mass on, all over the place… They are great for beginners who are weak all over

But in reality progression on lifts (which doesn’t have to be Barbell) is all that matters.

"Successful lifters, bodybuilders, and strength athletes all have one thing in common: their training is based around six or seven basic barbell movements, and the variables that are manipulated are volume, intensity, and rest, not the number of exercises.

Because there aren’t very many exercises that can actually be trained."

yeah so many Pro BBers using barbells, lol

and “aren’t many exercises that can actually be trained”. Wtf? I can’t track progression when I’m using a smith machine? Thats news to me

Rippetoes arguments are like “Rant against incompetent scrawny wimp guys who don’t have a clue, rant against P90x and Crossfit, stereotype everyone as not tracking lifts or caring about progression, try to sell shitty strength program to bodybuilders”

fucken hell!

rippetoe is good at what he does. get newbs as strong as possible in the shortest amount of time, thats it. you cant deny that he is succesful in what he does.

as for the starting strength routine. its great for someone looking to get into powerlifting or sports. not the best IMO for someone with strictly physique oriented goals, but still better than the majority of really high volume splits most newbs tend to choose…

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
Because people consistently recommend Starting Strength for people who want to get into Bodybuilding. It is a waste of time.[/quote]

For a beginner with a background in athletics you may have a point. For a beginner that lacks basic coordination SS is a solid way to get things started.
[/quote]
Well I guess there’s that argument as well. When I started with weights in the last couple of yrs, I could already do multiple weighted chinups, pushups in the 50s, etc. I just know that when I did a SS type program, all that happened was that my chest/back just got slightly bigger but my arms were still tiny and didn’t budge. Thights got bigger too but hamstrings were still weak as hell. I just don’t see enough balance in SS. Even for someone who’s a complete newb, i don’t see the harm in adding hamstring curls and some arm exercises in addition to the SS exercises.

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:

[quote]optheta wrote:
People act like standard BBing splits do not have Overhead Press,Squats,Deadlifts,Bench Press or that you can’t learn those movements while you doing a BB split.

You guys make it seem you will only learn those movements if you do a program like Starting Strength. Which makes no fucking sense. You can spend your time learning all of those movements in a standard BB split.

And wouldn’t that lead to more progress because in the realm of BB you need the volume/frequency which starting strenght does not adequately give that.[/quote]

yeah, people act like BBing routines can’t have basic barbell movements in it.

I think barbell movements are great for putting mass on, all over the place… They are great for beginners who are weak all over

But in reality progression on lifts (which doesn’t have to be Barbell) is all that matters.

"Successful lifters, bodybuilders, and strength athletes all have one thing in common: their training is based around six or seven basic barbell movements, and the variables that are manipulated are volume, intensity, and rest, not the number of exercises.

Because there aren’t very many exercises that can actually be trained."

yeah so many Pro BBers using barbells, lol

and “aren’t many exercises that can actually be trained”. Wtf? I can’t track progression when I’m using a smith machine? Thats news to me

Rippetoes arguments are like “Rant against incompetent scrawny wimp guys who don’t have a clue, rant against P90x and Crossfit, stereotype everyone as not tracking lifts or caring about progression, try to sell shitty strength program to bodybuilders”
[/quote]

If you are referring to his last article, you should re-read. You missed the point completely. Does he “attack” certain training programs? yes. That’s his style. Don’t like it, don’t read it.

You and Rip have something in common. You both agree that SS is not for BB’ers.

Is SS the best of the best program? Nope, but re-read bluecolar’s post.

Also, GOMAD is recommended by a lot of trainers. Well, the big ones anyways that concentrate on strength. Wendler even recommends baby wipes if you are lactose intolerant as it will get messy… Yeah.

He has a philosophy, he sticks with it and he gets results. It is not “he is wrong”. It is “I do not agree with him and would love to sit face to face so I can explain my views and convert him to mine…” Again, yeah…

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I think it is fair to say he doesn’t have a clue about bodybuilding[/quote]
Agreed, but that’s like saying Chris Aceto doesn’t have a clue about Crossfit. It’s an area of practice he doesn’t focus on, but also never claimed to be the ideal solution for.

Have to disagree to a point. To be fair, what little nutrition advice Rippetoe did include in the Starting Strength book tells people to “eat well.” He explained that that means:
“… 4 or so meals per day, based on meat and egg protein sources, with lots of fruit and vegetables, and lots of milk. Lots. Most sources within the heavy training community agree that a good starting place is one gram of protein per pound of bodyweight per day, with the rest of the diet making up 2500-5000 calories, depending on training requirements and body composition.”

That seems solid enough advice to start, if a little brief and/or generalized.

Whenever he does mention GOMAD, he almost always clarifies that it’s only suggested for skinny guys. People already carrying excessive fat have no business drinking GOMAD and he says as much.

[quote]marshaldteach wrote:
SS sucks for BBing [/quote]
This seems to be the gist of most peoples’ complaint, which is a false premise. Starting Strength isn’t supposed to be for the beginner bodybuilder, it’s for the beginner… period. It’s Rippetoe’s way of taking somebody with zero lifting experience and having them do what he considers the most effective and efficient way to use those first few months building a foundation. Just because a skinny-fat 5’10", 150-pound guy says he wants to look like a bodybuilder doesn’t necessarily mean he has to train “like a bodybuilder” his first 120 days in the gym.

I will agree, though, that it’s not a cure-all and isn’t appropriate for all people under all conditions.

This is flat-out incorrect. In the “Rippetoe Success Story” thread a few months ago, I put up a few pictures of guys who had good progress on Starting Strength after 2-6 months. Funny thing though, the people who already thought poorly of SS said the pics showed bad progress and the people who spoke positively of SS said the results were fine. You’d think before/after pictures would be less subject to bias.

Anyhow, when Starting Strength is done right and followed to the letter, the majority of people look just fine (ending up larger, more muscular, and significantly stronger) after a few months, at which time they can do whatever plan their hearts desire.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
This seems to be the gist of most peoples’ complaint, which is a false premise. Starting Strength isn’t supposed to be for the beginner bodybuilder, it’s for the beginner… period.[/quote]

exactly. Judging Rip for his programs not being good for bodybuilders is like judging a fish’s ability to climb trees

Seems like he was lumping everybody together in this recent article though, not just beginners. I could be mistaken…

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Whenever he does mention GOMAD, he almost always clarifies that it’s only suggested for skinny guys. People already carrying excessive fat have no business drinking GOMAD and he says as much.[/quote]
I don’t think anyone has any business drinking any GOMAD tbh. There are better ways, even for those that can tolerate it. Just not good for digestion and long term overall general health and that should come first over anything else, even the precious gaaiinnzzzzz! and fuck Wendler and his baby wipes!

Most guys that are extremely new to lifting, bodybuilding or powerlifting, can benefit extremely well from doing starting strength or an equivalent type program. I have known numerous guys that well gain a little muscle and stall because there strength is not progressing fast enough.

I think there should be some very basic strength requirements for bodybuilding that until you reach them trying to sculpt a physique is a waste of time because you are going to plateau and have to find a more strength oriented plan. Even Weider wrote about the importance of building a foundation with a simple routine for a little while.

[quote]flch95 wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Whenever he does mention GOMAD, he almost always clarifies that it’s only suggested for skinny guys. People already carrying excessive fat have no business drinking GOMAD and he says as much.[/quote]
I don’t think anyone has any business drinking any GOMAD tbh. There are better ways, even for those that can tolerate it. Just not good for digestion and long term overall general health and that should come first over anything else, even the precious gaaiinnzzzzz! and fuck Wendler and his baby wipes![/quote]

Well since you threw Rip, Wendler and a lot of pretty jacked BB’s and football players under the bus (with their wipes).

What is your alternative that is as economical…and protein/calorie dense?

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]flch95 wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Whenever he does mention GOMAD, he almost always clarifies that it’s only suggested for skinny guys. People already carrying excessive fat have no business drinking GOMAD and he says as much.[/quote]
I don’t think anyone has any business drinking any GOMAD tbh. There are better ways, even for those that can tolerate it. Just not good for digestion and long term overall general health and that should come first over anything else, even the precious gaaiinnzzzzz! and fuck Wendler and his baby wipes![/quote]

Well since you threw Rip, Wendler and a lot of pretty jacked BB’s and football players under the bus (with their wipes).

What is your alternative that is as economical…and protein/calorie dense?

[/quote]
The alternative doesn’t matter. The point is, milk fucks up your digestion (for a lot of people). For such people, that’s end game, period. And I’m not sure $6 gallon per day milk is cheaper than a home made shake. At literally $6 per day that’s $180 per month. A 5lb tub of protein that lasts me 6 weeks is $100. Either way, my point is, people like me can’t have milk. I have one glass, I can’t poop the next day, simple. If you don’t have your health what do you have???

I really enjoy his articles.

I just don’t like Starting Strength for BB related goals.

But I do really enjoy reading his stuff for some reason even though I don’t usually use it.