T Nation

Thoughts on Low Dose Test

So I had the chance to pick the brain of a well known and highly respected steroid user and supplement/steroid developer. I wont use his full name but his name is Emerick. He is closely tied to BALCO, good friends with Victor Conte and Greg Anderson. At 56 he is still competing and has a very respectable physique. At present he squats 505 which is pretty fuckin impressive. His current dosing is 75mg/week which seems like almost nothing. He had some very interesting views on testosterone dosing. He advocates very low dose cyp or e eod in doses no more than 100mg/week.

The idea behind the low dosing is that very little if any of the test will aromatize. At doses over 500mg/week total testosterone will be very high but the free testosterone will be very limited by excess estrogen. I asked him about the use of arimidex in raising free testosterone by lowering estrogen but he did not have an answer. I was just wondering what people think of this, I have heard of people having very consistent gains on low dose.

[quote]Poacher1632 wrote:
So I had the chance to pick the brain of a well known and highly respected steroid user and supplement/steroid developer.

I asked him about the use of arimidex in raising free testosterone by lowering estrogen but he did not have an answer. [/quote]

Sounds like you need a new source of information.

I think you are getting a bit muddled, there, proviron deals most effectively with free test vs shbg bound test.

Arimidex clamps down on the aromatose process.

More thinking about effectiveness of low dose >100mg week administered eod

I am pretty confident that over a longer time period than 8-12 weeks, that dosing protocol is very effective.

Look at the composition changes of TRT patients on that does… given as an injection of 200mg every 2 weeks no less. If administered EOD to keep a stable level, this will be even better.

The reason the bodybuilders use the protocols they do, is due to the fact that they are the highest dose that can be taken for the longest time that give the highest effect and lowest side effect ratio possible. The “optimal” dose. High results, fast results and as little sides as “willing to endure”.

More is better remember? :wink:
Well it is faster definitely!

In answer to your question, i answer… Yes.

Joe

Im planning for my next dose to do 40mg eod of cyp or e for 20 weeks. With this low of a dose I would expect few if any sides. I will definitely make a log to track my progress. My source sells almost exclusively in 200mg amps so I will be looking for a source that sells vials.

[quote]Poacher1632 wrote:
Im planning for my next dose to do 40mg eod of cyp or e for 20 weeks. With this low of a dose I would expect few if any sides. I will definitely make a log to track my progress. My source sells almost exclusively in 200mg amps so I will be looking for a source that sells vials. [/quote]

You’re going to do little more than suppress yourself and make for a long recovery. Unless you are on TRT, the doses you suggest are going to do little more than that, and if you’re on TRT, you don’t much need to worry about that seeing how you never come off.

Just a bad idea IMO.

And I’m with Schwarz, sounds like you need a new source of info.

World

I certainly dont base my actions on his ideas… it was just an interesting thought. You definitely make a great point about the recovery. ~If using 200mg eod would the free testosterone stay high with .25mg arimidex ed? I planned on going at least an extra 200mg a week from my last cycle but I was concerned about ft levels

BTW he is the guy that invented Humanofort so I guess that kinda says everything…he doesnt really know his shit. he just came out with Humanofort for dogs and cats wtf…

surely test prop would be better suited for the purposes you speak of, and again to clarify, free test vs shbg bound test can be manipulated via proviron not adex which subdues aromatose.

If I was planning 200-250mg prop eod for 12 weeks with a 4 week kickstart of dbol where would the proviron come in?

Guess I’m with Mr. Joseph on this one.

In my opinion, if your test levels are already pretty good naturally, then adding in roughly 100 mg of Test E or Test C will help for a little while. I believe for most people this amount will shut you down rather quickly, but recovery won’t be long IF you do this infrequently (i.e. not every week; maybe 1 week on 100 mg and 3 weeks off).

Prisoner 22 indicated something rather interesting with the research out there; 100 mg + SERM equated to no shutdown. With no SERM, 25 mg/week of Test C also had no shutdown.

If this is the case, and bear in mind I think the actual amounts are really really subjective to one’s individual physiology (i.e. one person might have no shutdown at 25 mg/week, whereas another might shut down pretty fast…blood testing folks:

It’s the only way to find out for sure for you), then who wouldn’t want to do this on a consistent basis? Extra T, at least enough to not aromatize or convert to DHT dramatically can only help us men.

As a matter of fact, I think when I do eventually get back on anabolics, I might play around with small amounts of test to find out where my personal every week use threshold lies. Interesting stuff.

I’ve always wondered about this.

Supposing someone was able to find their “sweet spot” where they experience ZERO shutdown, would that negligible amount of test amount to any useful gains?

Very interested to see someone try this.

[quote]Poacher1632 wrote:
If I was planning 200-250mg prop eod for 12 weeks with a 4 week kickstart of dbol where would the proviron come in?[/quote]

A better approach would be as follows;

Test Prop 100mg ed weeks 1 - 8
Dianabol 50mg ed weeks 1 - 4 or 2 - 6
Proviron 50mg ed weeks 1- 8

Adex .25 - .5 mg where required (more than likely during the use of dianabol)

Pct

Nolva weeks 9 - 12 20mg ed

perhaps start the nolva the last few days of week 8

I havent reccomended a taper here as i would imagine it to be a pian in the arse with prop, though it could be done, perhaps more easily if enanthate was introduced during week 5 but it will become complex doing that.

That looks like a good plan-my only issue would be monetary. My source would end up costing me about double for prop than cyp or e… could I just put the enth in at eod(250mg) and run it like its outlined above?
thanks

No that would be pointless, if you have enth or cyp then inject 250mg e3d for 12 weeks or however high you wish to run your dosage, use an ai - adex if required to control any side effects which could be encountered and run proviron at 50mg per day if shbg is an issue for you.

The life of enanthate for example is 2 weeks, hence why a serm based pct would begin 2 weeks after your last injection, but injecting a small amount e3d keeps blood levels stable and ensures better gains, less side effects both physical and pyschological.

Personally i would drop this idea of injecting smaller dose of long estered steriods every other day it serves no purpose.

Yeah thats a good call. I appreciate your help. Im suprised at how many seasoned users I encounter that dont know some of the most basic things-maybe why it has such a bad rep in most of soceity.

I talked to a guy that had been using on a competitive level for 12 years. He was insisting that no matter what i would do I would lose 100% of my gains made while on cycle. He was very adamant in doing only 2-3 cycles per year, when I asked him about his PCT he asked “whats pct?” yikes no wonder he loses everything

Speaking of information sources:

I read that 25mg of test enth a week will have no effect on your bodies natural testosterone production.

100mg a week with a SERM will also have no effect on your bodies testosterone production.

I haven’t tried either, and can’t reference it off hand but it came from a reputable source.

[quote]testanabol wrote:
Poacher1632 wrote:
If I was planning 200-250mg prop eod for 12 weeks with a 4 week kickstart of dbol where would the proviron come in?

A better approach would be as follows;

Test Prop 100mg ed weeks 1 - 8
Dianabol 50mg ed weeks 1 - 4 or 2 - 6
Proviron 50mg ed weeks 1- 8

Adex .25 - .5 mg where required (more than likely during the use of dianabol)

Pct

Nolva weeks 9 - 12 20mg ed

perhaps start the nolva the last few days of week 8

I havent reccomended a taper here as i would imagine it to be a pian in the arse with prop, though it could be done, perhaps more easily if enanthate was introduced during week 5 but it will become complex doing that. [/quote]

Good cycle, you must admit - it is a far cry from a mere 100mg a week upto 1050mg a week!!! lol
This second cycle should produce a little more gains in the short term i suspec… ;p

I know that during the statis (100mg) and taper (less than 100mg) period of the Test Taper Protocol I have to admit I feel better than completely off.

So yeah, 75mg a week could give results for sure if you train and eat right - probably even more so compared to no exogenous Test when 52 years old. Of course those results certainly would not be in the same range as heavy cycles, but still interesting.

Let’s face it: we all copy each one other’s cycles and there’s very little research done for muscle builing purposes. There’s still a lot to learn!