Thoughts on Lifting and Bodybuilding

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]johnflower wrote:

I agree that an IFBB pro is unlikely to be using the Bent Press to win comps. I’m vaguely aware that what they put into their bodies mean that they train differently to people who rely only on food. Bent Press may be relatively poor at building muscle compared with other exercises in that case.

Even for the food only it is difficult to learn, and it may take several months before enough weight can be lifted to make it useful… time which could be better spent doing simpler lifts. Can you explain why you think the Bent Press won’t be useful for hypertrophy for the natural lifter? [/quote]

Can we talk about this for a second? You do know IFBB pros still rely on ‘food’, right? They eat tremendous amounts. The fact they are usually 250+ lbs means they REALLY rely on food.

Secondly, I’m not sure why you’d think drugs would effect the ability of a particular lift to promote hypertrophy. This is a weird thing to even suggest. lol[/quote]

lol, I saw that too but I decided just to let it go.

No doubt you’ll get some rambling, 20 paragraph response now that won’t justify his position at all.

spidey22, just curious how recent the pics are in your profile? Thanks. Confusion

[quote]confusion wrote:
spidey22, just curious how recent the pics are in your profile? Thanks. Confusion[/quote]

Recent? Like a month or so ago I think

The reason odd lifts like bent press have been now labeled odd lifts is because they were deemed less efficient as our understanding of training grew… If you feel the need to tell every Pro Bodybuilder that they are wrong and that they don’t rely on food, and that every training method that isn’t stupid and made up by you doesn’t work for you then that’s your prerogative.

If none of their programs worked, the programs aren’t the problem, you are.

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]confusion wrote:
spidey22, just curious how recent the pics are in your profile? Thanks. Confusion[/quote]

Recent? Like a month or so ago I think[/quote]

Clearly favorable lighting and probably post carb-up. Perhaps you should learn to rely on food more.

In the words of OP, get bent! Thanks, jskrabac.

This makes me want to have a bent press contest.

I literally almost don’t know where to start. There’s just so much. I think you would’ve really gotten along with the Predator Diet guy from a few months ago, and that’s saying a lot.

[quote]johnflower wrote:
A squat is a squat, it doesn’t get better by doing some other leg exercise.[/quote]
This is one approach, but Louie Simmons and tons of other successful lifters would disagree.

When you start stalling at lockout, I think you’ll come to a different conclusion.

This statement is simply wrong. People get stronger without getting bigger all the time, either on purpose (due to weight class restrictions) or accidentally (by fucking up their nutrition).

For future reference, this was debunked years ago as being an urban legend.

The real purpose of 6-pack abs is to get other people’s faces closer to your crotch. Know what I mean? Amirite broskis?

Like Ecchastang pointed out, the majority info in your library directly contradicts most of your views. Based on your approach to training, I thought you’d have mostly listed writers like Calvert, Jowett, and Saxon.

Your infatuation with the bent press has blinded you to one fundamental aspect. It originally was, and still is, a demonstration of strength, not a muscle builder. It was meant to be an “easy” way to get a very heavy weight locked out overhead and it does that primarily by using several large muscle groups in mostly static positions.

Most of the involved muscles don’t go through anything resembling a complete range of motion (concentric and eccentric) during a bent press rep. This static or nearly-static strength is exactly why you’re able to move so much weight during the lift, but it’s also why it’s a relatively poor muscle builder. If supporting heavy weights with reduced ROM was a terrific muscle builder, then 600-pound quarter-rep shrugs would build better traps, biceps, upper back, and lats than a 500-pound deadlift.

Grimek was a top-level Olympic weightlifter for years before ever competing in bodybuilding. Meaning, he competed in the freaking Olympics. An elite athlete like that not only has a natural genetic propensity for results, but has a very well established base of strength and muscle before pushing it further with bodybuilding-specific training. Sorry boss, but bent presses didn’t make Grimek Grimek.


I always liked Jack Handey’s thoughts on lifting and Bodybuilding.

Honestly man, from what I’m gathering from your first post, you sound like you tried to build a good physique but failed. Now you’re doing these obscure lifts that nobody does just to stand out and state strength as your main goal so you’re not accountable for your lack of progress physique wise.

I’m sorry to say this, but other than some people born with leverages favourable to certain lifts, strong people also look like they train. You are not strong, nor do you look like you train. And if a 225lb squat is the result of 1.5 years of “training for strength”, you are still doing something very wrong.

It would be in your best interest to forget all that you think you know now, get on a good beginner program and a proper diet plan and start afresh.

It’s the New Year afterall.


More thoughts on lifting from the great Jack Handey.

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]confusion wrote:
spidey22, just curious how recent the pics are in your profile? Thanks. Confusion[/quote]

Recent? Like a month or so ago I think[/quote]

Clearly favorable lighting and probably post carb-up. Perhaps you should learn to rely on food more.

In the words of OP, get bent! Thanks, jskrabac. [/quote]

Rely on food? Why would I do that? IFBB pros don’t, why should I?

I train every body part once every 7-14 days. As long as I make sure I’m recovering enough, why would food even matter? You heard of Prahlad Jani? He’s got a killer physique, and did so on nothing but pure energy.

LMAO!!!

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
I literally almost don’t know where to start. There’s just so much. I think you would’ve really gotten along with the Predator Diet guy from a few months ago, and that’s saying a lot.
[/quote]

C’mon now…that predator diet dipshit was in a league of his own. Unless I missed something in his first post, OP ain’t trying to pass himself off as some guru selling e-books.

OP strikes me as a decent guy. Somewhat misguided in his philosophies but these folks will either wise up or wash out.

[quote]johnflower wrote:
“If you get stronger you will get bigger”[/quote]

Uh,… nope

[quote]
If you’re adding weight to the bar, then you’ll be gaining mass. [/quote]

really nope. Talk to any of the amazingly strong yet diminuitive competitive powerlifters.

Not when you’ve got a serious imbalance, and intelligent use of isolation work is your best course of action. POsibly incorporation of pre-exhaust, or strategic exercise sequencing.

While this may be fun for athletic types, for dyed in the wool gym rats who train solely for asthetic purposes, this is of no consequence. They should favor exercises that allow them to actually feel their intended target muscles doing the work, all else be damned.

[quote]
“Tempo is bollox”
Doing a job slowly will get you tired, or fired. Lift as fast as you can! If you want a slow tempo, increase the weight and call the lift by a different name. [/quote]

Gonna find a lot of advanced trainers disagreeing with you on this one too. A solid understanding of how to use tempo (check out Compesatory Acceleration Training by Hatfield) will allow a much better use of weight training in order to stimulate hypertrophy than the average “lift big/eat big” gym rat.

[quote]
“Ab training is bollox”[/quote]

For bodybuilding purposes, while you may have great core strength from overhead work and full squats, and even “ok” visible abs as well, no one is getting contest winning thick ass bricks up their midsection without direct training IMO.

Colucci and a few others already touched on a lot of good points, but while you seem a genuinely well intentioned guy, I think you’re under quite a few misconceptions about training for hypertrophy.

S

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:

[quote]Spidey22 wrote:

[quote]confusion wrote:
spidey22, just curious how recent the pics are in your profile? Thanks. Confusion[/quote]

Recent? Like a month or so ago I think[/quote]

Clearly favorable lighting and probably post carb-up. Perhaps you should learn to rely on food more.

In the words of OP, get bent! Thanks, jskrabac. [/quote]

Rely on food? Why would I do that? IFBB pros don’t, why should I?

I train every body part once every 7-14 days. As long as I make sure I’m recovering enough, why would food even matter? You heard of Prahlad Jani? He’s got a killer physique, and did so on nothing but pure energy.
[/quote]

Are you high?! I looked up this Jani guy and he could compete in bikini division at best…and that’s being generous. He doesn’t even have a lifting channel on YouTube.

This is just further evidence that you should be relying more on food and functional movement patterns like bent presses and bosu ball squats and possibly blind folded walking lunges if you think you’re advanced enough…which you’re clearly not if you aspire to look like Jani. His conditioning is unparalleled; I’ll give him that, but he should consider eating.

[quote]johnflower wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What are your accomplishments?[/quote]
None of note. I’m just a little chap lifting in his garage trying to add a kilo here and a rep there.[/quote]

With this, I do not know how you can genuinely have any sort of belief on training. My best advice would be to spend another decade busting your ass and from there evaluate.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]johnflower wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What are your accomplishments?[/quote]
None of note. I’m just a little chap lifting in his garage trying to add a kilo here and a rep there.[/quote]

With this, I do not know how you can genuinely have any sort of belief on training. My best advice would be to spend another decade busting your ass and from there evaluate.[/quote]

Don’t you find it at least a little interesting tho? :slight_smile:

[quote]confusion wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]johnflower wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What are your accomplishments?[/quote]
None of note. I’m just a little chap lifting in his garage trying to add a kilo here and a rep there.[/quote]

With this, I do not know how you can genuinely have any sort of belief on training. My best advice would be to spend another decade busting your ass and from there evaluate.[/quote]

Don’t you find it at least a little interesting tho? :slight_smile:
[/quote]

I truthfully didn’t read it. I look at what one has accomplished before I consider their words. His unwillingness to even provide some basic stats in turn makes me unwilling to entertain the ideas.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
His unwillingness to even provide some basic stats in turn makes me unwilling to entertain the ideas.
[/quote]

he has a 55kg bent press.

[quote]TheCB wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
His unwillingness to even provide some basic stats in turn makes me unwilling to entertain the ideas.
[/quote]

he has a 55kg bent press.[/quote]
Pretty soon we will start comparing each other’s Kelly snatch http://www.usawa.com/USAWA%20Uploads/2012/03/Piper-Kelly.jpg

Is the OP a member of USAWA?