T Nation

Thoughts on Insulin Use PWO?

Whats your opinion on this matter? People I know have done this while on GH and others have done it just while on gear in general. Just trying to find out some more information from personal experiences.
Thanks in advance.
See Ya

Personally I don’t agree with it’s use. Using insulin, you are just setting yourself up for being diabetic.

By using insulin you will be creating insuling resistence in your tissues, and could, especially if you are prone to diabetes, accellerate the process.

The big point wich most people don’t seem to understand, also is that your body is capable of producing (provided you are not diabetic) just as much insulin as you would be planning on injecting. All it needs is the stimulus of food for this to occur. So what the hell is the point of risking your life for then???

The only value that the insulin really has is in helping the production of IGF-1 along with GH.

Using insulin alone is pointless. You are much better off just consuming 4000 calories in one sitting and letting your own pancrease do the work for you.

Thanks for the info.

If you wanted to increase your own insulin production w/o exogenous insulin use you could take Glipizide in a 2 day on 2 day off protocol and metformon ED. This would be benefical during a bulking phase.

Glipizide increases your own insulin production and metformin adds insulin receptor sensitivity for muscle. Obviously the most serious sides come from insulin drugs, like hypoglycemia, coma and death. One would need to do much research before jumping in…good luck.

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
To then force the pancreas to overproduce insulin in response to a dose of sugar that conservatively estimated must be in excess of 250g (1000cals divided by 4 cals/g) seems potentially damaging, at least to me.

bushy[/quote]

It was my understanding that for a 180 pound male a mix of maltodextrin and dextrose, split 50/50, totaling 120 grams was efficient for spiking insulin post workout. any thoughts on this???

rabs

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Rabs wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
To then force the pancreas to overproduce insulin in response to a dose of sugar that conservatively estimated must be in excess of 250g (1000cals divided by 4 cals/g) seems potentially damaging, at least to me.

bushy

It was my understanding that for a 180 pound male a mix of maltodextrin and dextrose, split 50/50, totaling 120 grams was efficient for spiking insulin post workout. any thoughts on this???

rabs

I have read that 80g of dextrose will do the trick…

bushy[/quote]

Bushy, do you know where I could get some more information on using insulin with gear (test) or even slin only. I have only been able to find a couple FAQ’s but they havnt really awnsered my questions.

Do a search in this forum for a thread on Author Rea’s Building the Perfect Beast, in the thread there will be a link where you can download the e-book. In it you will find specific cycles using insulin among other chemical enhancement drugs. You will have many of your questions answered.

[quote]bboybean wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Rabs wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
To then force the pancreas to overproduce insulin in response to a dose of sugar that conservatively estimated must be in excess of 250g (1000cals divided by 4 cals/g) seems potentially damaging, at least to me.

bushy

It was my understanding that for a 180 pound male a mix of maltodextrin and dextrose, split 50/50, totaling 120 grams was efficient for spiking insulin post workout. any thoughts on this???

rabs

I have read that 80g of dextrose will do the trick…

bushy

Bushy, do you know where I could get some more information on using insulin with gear (test) or even slin only. I have only been able to find a couple FAQ’s but they havnt really awnsered my questions.
[/quote]

I agree with bushidobadboy here.

I have yet to find any reaearch what so even that finds taking insulin increases your risk of becoming dibetic… and I’ve been looking.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
My opinion differs from P22s here.

Taking 4000cals of food, post workout is definitely a good way to force muscle growth, BUT just how much stress do you think you place on your pancreas by dumping a shitload of sugar into your digestive tract?

This is possibly made worse by the fact that as physique/health conscious individuals, most of us are (or should) be consuming low glycaemic carbs throughout the majority of the day, only taking in large amounts of simple carbs in the post workout window, to speed glycogen creation/uptake. If we eat primarily low GI/high protein/healthy fat foods, our pancreas are unstressed, needing to produce only a trickle of insulin through out the day. To then force the pancreas to overproduce insulin in response to a dose of sugar that conservatively estimated must be in excess of 250g (1000cals divided by 4 cals/g) seems potentially damaging, at least to me.

Basically, my view is that taking a small amount of insulin with your PWO simple carb intake, actually alleviates some of the stress on your pancreas.

bushy[/quote]

I don’t agree with you here. Yes, consuming 4000 cals on a regular basis is unsafe.

Shooting insulin isn’t safe.

The reason there is no research on normal people taking insulin goes back to the whole notion of ethics. There has been no need and the ethics are not there to perform a study, to prove using insulin regularly when it is not needed won’t promote insulin dependance eventually.

As for the need for insulin, or even for consuming a great amount of calories, I don’t believe it is needed, as the muscles can only store a finite amount of carbohydrates, and the liver will only convert a finite amount of glucose into glycogen. Everthing after that, is stored in fat cells. There is no point to this, as you will just have to spend time burning it off later anyway, which will take time away from muscle building, so in the end you decrease your potential ability to gain muscle by over eating and using insulin.

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[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:

The reason there is no research on normal people taking insulin goes back to the whole notion of ethics. There has been no need and the ethics are not there to perform a study, to prove using insulin regularly when it is not needed won’t promote insulin dependance eventually.[/quote]

There have been no animal studies either…

I understand what you are saying Bush, and I understand your reasoning, however, either way - weather it is your own pancrease doing the work or it is an injection, you are still creating insulin resistance, and dulling your own response.

Keep in mind, that Diabetes type 1 is an autoimmune disorder, where your beta cells are actually targeted for destruction by your immune system. There is little cases of pancrease ‘burning out’, as most NIDDM can be controled without drugs, provided weight loss is acheived.

Type 2 has more to do with insulin resistence at the cell membranes, and less to do with beta cell death If I recall my pathophys correctly.