T Nation

Thoughts on First Cycle

brook helped me out her a little. i know its considered a light cycle but heres what i got. two weeks prior to this i will run letrozole to help with some minor gyno i have.
Day 1: .50mg Letro
�?�Day 2: 1.0mg Letro
�?�Day 3: 1.5mg Letro
�?�Day 4: 2.0mg Letro
�?�Day 5: 2.5mg Letro - stay here as instructed in gyno sticky until gyno goes away then taper back down to a .50 or .25mg a day while on cycle

Wk1-8 Test E 250mg �?�
Wk1-8 Deca 200mg
Wk9-12 Test E 100mg �?�
Wk11 Nolvadex 40mg/d
�?�Wk12 Nolvadex 30mg/d
�?�Wk13 Nolvadex 20mg/d
�?�Wk14 Nolvadex 10mg/d

Is this the cycle you had to plan from a very limited amount of resources?
Just 2.5g Enan and 3g Deca?

If so the cycle is the best you can do with the supplies IMO… but talk to me about the letro portion… where did you get the shape for the cycle pattern? I am not sure you need to taper into the letro 2.5mg dose…

:wink:

I am guessing that you are attempting to do a stasis peroid before using your nolv. Just a thought here but if you are planning on running that nolv PCT anyway why not add in 2 more weeks of full dosed test so you have at least 10 weeks and just drop the 4 weeks stasis. I know someone has probably told you before that enanthate esters should be ran for at least 10 weeks and deca even longer.

An even better idea would be to hold off on your cycle until you can get enough gear to run a complete cycle at full strength.

I like the stasis taper, dont get me wrong. I really dont like the idea of running a test e and deca cycle for only 8 weeks. Only if you are using prop/NPP.

What 2thepain said. You really need to wait until you have enough gear to do a proper cycle. Your first cycle should be one of your best. You are really going to shortchange yourself with this one.

I’ll tell you this, too. From experience, it takes a LOT of test to counteract the libido killing effects of that dosage of letrozole. I tried letrozole at a high dosage to get rid of some existing gyno. I was using around 800mgs a week of test along with proviron and it still killed my libido and screwed up my liver values. Letrozole is some powerful shit, man. Make sure you know what you are getting yourself into.

My opinion: this is a shitty cycle all around.

well i just got another 7ml of test. any suggestions?

and how much letrozole were you using?

[quote]jman323x wrote:
well i just got another 7ml of test. any suggestions?[/quote]

keep stocking up.thats my suggestion

just keep gathering and soon enough you will have enough for a decent cycle.

keep it simple and make sure you have too much gear becuase things may happen.

I tossed out a whole 10ml vial my last cycle bcause I dropped it and it cracked and I didnt want to risk it.

2Pain: My first cycles were ALL 6 weeks… whether that was test cyp (7 weeks actually ;p), dianabol or deca… i gained very well from them all…
I have also known many guys IRL who gained very well from 250 test and 200 deca for 8+ weeks… newbies obviously(first 1-3 cycles).

Before the massive use of the net where we now have access to the great info we do, it was common for guys to shoot an amp of each once a week… and while there are better ways and more effective ways that are now commonplace… it can work very well if it is done.

If you are saying that some of your suggestions could make this cycle better - then i 100%, totally and wholeheartedly agree with you… however, for anyone to state that this cycle will not work is just rubbish… especially when many of you have never used dosages so low as you have always simply been told and believe that 250mg/wk of test doesnt cause any gains… it bloody does!! :slight_smile:

As for the stasis - i do happen to know that 8 weeks IS enough time to get appreciable gains on both deca and Enanth (as i have done it - with good diet and training 20lbs is POSSIBLE) but with the inclusion of deca i think that IF the test was run for 10 weeks, and also the Deca, and then a simple nolva PCT i wouldnt be surprised if recovery became elusive, again - in some cases.

So knowing that 8 weeks is just about enough for each, then i used the extra test to stasis and give the time between PCT and deca completion that we know as helpful for recovery.
I also think that with this cycle the gains that come will be easier to maintain too… BUT it is JMO… the OP is free to do as he chooses :slight_smile:

Cortes: I dont think that you would want to use a massive dose of test to counter any sides from the letro - as these sides are from a direct lowering of estrogen, as is necessary to reduce the gyno if possible. Using massive doses of test would only serve increase estrogen which would in turn reduce the low estrogen sides but also ruin the efforts at reducing the gyno…

Jman: As far as i am aware, if you are wanting to reduce Gynocomastia with letrozole use, then you need to put up with the sides, this can/will include but is not limited to: Impotence, loss of motivation, joint pains, reduced immune function. Not sure if you need to taper into the 2.5mg dose, IIRC it is Bill Roberts who is the guy to speak to with this… hopefully he will chime in and rubbish everything i said! lol :wink:
Also IF you really have gotten another 7g of test then that changes EVERYTHING. I suggest you create a cycle based on the advice you take from the posters above, and present it to us for critique.

:wink:

JJ

Great response ahaha, and ya i am most likely getting more from my friend. Also the deca i have isnt 200 its deca 300. if i do end up getting it, ill post again with a slightly diffrent cycle

and i started the letrozole and its been 4 days, the gyno is already decreasing…this stuff is legit ahaha. and so far i have a little joint pain but hey, ill put up with that, who wants bitch tits! ahahaha

[quote] Brook wrote:

Cortes: I dont think that you would want to use a massive dose of test to counter any sides from the letro - as these sides are from a direct lowering of estrogen, as is necessary to reduce the gyno if possible. Using massive doses of test would only serve increase estrogen which would in turn reduce the low estrogen sides but also ruin the efforts at reducing the gyno…

JJ[/quote]

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but everything I have ever read about letrozole points to it’s being so powerful that it pretty much won’t matter how much test you are on. 98% estrogen elimination is some powerful shit. And my pre-existing (pubescent) gyno did shrink, but it grew back to about it’s original size after I came off.

I experienced a loss of libido that I have never before felt and I didn’t realize how not-good that feels. I also got dog-sick a little while after starting, and I NEVER get sick.

Like I said, letrozole is some powerful shit.
And the fact that the OP appears to be already starting his cycle or ONLY letrozole (!!!) before he is even finished receiving advice is some dumb shit. I’m not going to stick around and try and help someone who isn’t listening to anything he doesn’t want to hear.

[quote]jman323x wrote:
and i started the letrozole and its been 4 days, the gyno is already decreasing…this stuff is legit ahaha. and so far i have a little joint pain but hey, ill put up with that, who wants bitch tits! ahahaha [/quote]

You were warned.

Let us know what happens to you. I doubt it will be anything good.

[quote] Brook wrote:
2Pain: My first cycles were ALL 6 weeks… whether that was test cyp (7 weeks actually ;p), dianabol or deca… i gained very well from them all…
I have also known many guys IRL who gained very well from 250 test and 200 deca for 8+ weeks… newbies obviously(first 1-3 cycles).

Before the massive use of the net where we now have access to the great info we do, it was common for guys to shoot an amp of each once a week… and while there are better ways and more effective ways that are now commonplace… it can work very well if it is done.

If you are saying that some of your suggestions could make this cycle better - then i 100%, totally and wholeheartedly agree with you… however, for anyone to state that this cycle will not work is just rubbish… especially when many of you have never used dosages so low as you have always simply been told and believe that 250mg/wk of test doesnt cause any gains… it bloody does!! :slight_smile:

As for the stasis - i do happen to know that 8 weeks IS enough time to get appreciable gains on both deca and Enanth (as i have done it - with good diet and training 20lbs is POSSIBLE) but with the inclusion of deca i think that IF the test was run for 10 weeks, and also the Deca, and then a simple nolva PCT i wouldnt be surprised if recovery became elusive, again - in some cases.

So knowing that 8 weeks is just about enough for each, then i used the extra test to stasis and give the time between PCT and deca completion that we know as helpful for recovery.
I also think that with this cycle the gains that come will be easier to maintain too… BUT it is JMO… the OP is free to do as he chooses :slight_smile:

JJ[/quote]

I too know an individual who recently gained 30lbs off of a first cycle, 12 weeks of test/deca @ 250/200mg per week. He was a meso to start and the low doses worked well for him. My point is that he had only gained about 15lbs at week 6 and 20 by week 8. He was able to keep gaining well into the last weeks of his cycle. I am not saying that lower doses cant work but I do think that it is wise to get the most out of your first cycle. Planning a shorter cycle with longer esters just because it is all that is available is not an optimal approach IMO.

True - OP, i would like to say that i DO agree with 2pain and cortes… there are better ways… just not with your current supplies.

The choice is yours, if you really cannot get more then do it - but if it is simply a matter of impatience then i would wait.

Saying that, if you have 10g of test now then you could run a totally normal cycle similar to the following (yeah… i’m too soft):

(CYCLE)
Wk1-10 Test 500mg
Wk1-10 Deca 300mg

(STASIS)
Wk10-16 Test 100mg/wk

(TAPER)
Wk17 Test 80mg/wk+Nolva 20mg/d
Wk18 Test 60mg/wk+Nolva 20mg/d
Wk19 Test 40mg/wk+Nolva 20mg/d
Wk20 Test 20mg/wk+Nolva 20mg/d
Wk21 Nolva 20mg/d
Wk22 Nolva 20mg/d

There may be a better way but that is what i would probably do with recovery and results in mind. You probably have enough test to do alot more for longer but i think that this will affect recovery potentially and i am in the camp of going easy(ish) first time out to see HOW easily one can recover.

JMO

JJ

He never said he got 7 (or 10) grams. He said 7mls.

ahh… my mistake! lol

ive been on the letro for a week now, gyno almsot gone, slight joint pain… not too bad tho, and i still have plenty of drive, although its a little down… not as bad as your saying ahaha.

[quote]jman323x wrote:
ive been on the letro for a week now, gyno almsot gone, slight joint pain… not too bad tho, and i still have plenty of drive, although its a little down… not as bad as your saying ahaha.[/quote]

Whatever you say.