T Nation

Thoughts About This


#1

Hi,

First I have to address this: I have learned one lesson from doing 5/3/1 - you should follow as closely as you can Wendlers recommendations, he has 20+ years of experience and he is the creator of the method.

Anyway, often life and training limitations makes it not the best idea to follow some ready template, there is always some individual factors involved. So I have made my next 4 cycle plan for next winter/spring and like to get any feedback anyone here has about it. I've tried to follow the ideas and principles of 5/3/1 as closely as I can.

Goals:
Deadlift, Hang clean and Press -> increase 1RM.

Squat and Bench -> Increase base strength and work on form. (specially squat has quite low TM).

Conditioning -> maintaining decent level of conditioning, mostly done by running in hilly environment. Conditioning is held constant whole time.

I have established solid numbers for each movement which I likely get after these 4 cycles.

Template:

I'll have changing schedules and I am uncertain of my life situation prior to some months, so I'll use A/B split.

A Hang Clean
Squat
Bench
assistance

B Jumps
Deadlift
Press
assistance

I'm changing the main movement in each workout, like this:
B1: DL 3/5/1
Press FSL work

B2: Press 3/5/1
DL FSL work

2-3 workout per week + 2x running sessions per week + daily mobility.

Progression (here I am most uncertain):
Cycles 1 and 2 -> base cycles
Cycles 3 and 4 -> challenge cycles
After this I'll test my 1RM in each movement (prob. 5rm in squat/bench).

I'll deload when it is needed, probably after each cycle.

5's week is ALWAYS just needed reps, no TM work.

1.CYCLE
DL and OHP: 3/5/1, 5x3/5x5 FSL
CLEAN: 3x3 work weight, 3x3 work weight
SQUAT AND BENCH: 5x5 work weight, 3x5 work weight

2.CYCLE
DL and OHP: 3/5/1, 7x3/7x5 FSL
CLEAN: 3's PRO, 3x3 SSL
SQUAT AND BENCH: 5x5 work weight, 3x5 work weight

3.CYCLE
DL AND OHP: 5's pro + TM PR, 5x3/5x5 FSL
CLEAN: 3's pro + TM PR, 3x3 SSL
SQUAT AND BENCH: 5's pro, 5x5 FSL

  1. CYCLE
    DL AND OHP: 5's PRO + TM PR, 7x3/7x5 FSL
    CLEAN: 3's pro + TM PR, 3x3 SSL
    SQUAT AND BENCH: 5's pro, 5x5 FSL

Assistance:
rows, chins, abs

I give myself also a possibility to do small low stress optional assistance movements for first two cycles (these are bodyweight NHR - basically easier variation of GHR, curls, triceps and face pulls/lateral raises). -> not really planning this, I know when to do them.

That's about it. I think I have thought this through and still have a plenty of time adjust it. I just feel uncertain, mainly because too often I have been ended doing some stupid shit when planning my own training.


#2

I’m sure Jim will chime in on this, but my advice would be this: schedule as many weight room visits per week as you know you will be able to do. If that means two, so be it. On top of this, determine your weekly volume for assistance work - 100 chin ups, for instance. Then, just make sure you get the volume in - whether you do it all in one session, do a third gym day where you do half of it etc. This way, you’ll perform the big stuff at regular intervals but can be flexible concerning the rest.


#3

Thanks, that’s a sound advice. So I could just make my goal to hit 100 rows/chins, 100 abs and 100 face pulls per week and spread it where I have the time.

I can do these even in my home, if I’m too busy to do them in gym.

I’m going to aim mostly for 3 times/week, but sometimes I must go only with 2 times/week.


#4

“Increase base strength and work on form.”

Then do 5’s Pro with 25-40 reps of FSL.

Squat/Bench on one day.
Deadlift/press on another day.

We can do both lifts (main work) in 30-40 minutes. And superset the FSL work in 11 minutes once you get in great shape. This will make a huge difference. You have enough time to do this, so I’d recommend to do it.


#5

Thank you for the reply. The 5’s PRO + FSL work is what I was planning to do. Good to know I have learned something.

You’re talking about supersetting the FSL work of both main movements? Sounds rough.

I’m planning to do only other movement as 3/5/1 and other as FSL work (which I’m going to superset with assistance). I assume this is okay.


#6

[quote]Rattus wrote:
Thank you for the reply. The 5’s PRO + FSL work is what I was planning to do. Good to know I have learned something.

You’re talking about supersetting the FSL work of both main movements? Sounds rough.

I’m planning to do only other movement as 3/5/1 and other as FSL work (which I’m going to superset with assistance). I assume this is okay. [/quote]

I’m telling you do this:

A

Squat/Bench
FSL for Both 5x5

B

Deadlift/Press
FSL for Both 5x5

We do pushups/dips between main work of squat/deadlift. We do chins and rows (both) between main work of press/bench press. We then superset the FSL work. It’s all about getting the body in shape and ready. This is our basic workout and we do this until one can achieve it without dying. Until then, we don’t do anything else because there is no work capacity and no ability to recover. So it’s pointless.

We do cardio every day to get heart rate down and recover. The goal is to get through work easily and build a base. Once you do that, you’ll be good to go. A pyramid is only as tall as it’s base is wide.

You can do whatever you want to do, but you asked. This is part of the new book and how we start every 5 cycle program. And until it’s achieved, you don’t move on.


#7

I will listen. All your advice have been working so far, I can’t see any reason this being exception.

Just one more annoying question. Is there any way incorporate cleans in this? Starting the supersetted FSL work of presses and squats/deads with lighter volume (3x5) and slowly increasing from there? Maybe doing them quite light in 3rd day?

I actually almost now the answer. Not doing cleans in gym just feels like not doing squats. Something is missing. The movement really motivates me (and has done great job for overall strength, speed and even looks).


#8

I have been doing I similar template but only super-setting assistance. So what you have here would look like:

Squat 5’s pro super-set with pushups or dips
Bench 5’s pro super-set with rows AND chins?
then FSL 5x5 superset


#9

I calculated the weights for this. It looks completely doable. I’ll use it as a base cycle for 6 weeks. Then do something with heavier sets and moderate volume (maybe SVR II, I’m doing it now and really liking the results).

Still interested is there any possibility to use this cleans included. I really value the movement. Should something be taken out then?


#10

[quote]Rattus wrote:
I calculated the weights for this. It looks completely doable. I’ll use it as a base cycle for 6 weeks. Then do something with heavier sets and moderate volume (maybe SVR II, I’m doing it now and really liking the results).

Still interested is there any possibility to use this cleans included. I really value the movement. Should something be taken out then?
[/quote]

Just do them before you do the other work. It’s not a big deal.


#11

Thank you. I really appreciate the coaching you’re giving. I’ll do the template for at least 6 weeks, depending how hard it is. On paper it does not look bad, but the supersetting can be tougher than it looks.