Thoughts about this Article

Hey guys, I just read the 4 weightlifting myths article written by Chad Waterbury. I am not sure if I agree within last myth he discussed on there. Here is the link to it http://www.tnation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/4_weightlifting_myths_dispelled

What do u guys think?

I think he’s right theoretically, but to say that he was training for six months, in enough of a caloric surplus to gain 40 pounds and added no muscle is just ridiculous. I think his last paragraph is spot on but that scenario itself is lacking

[quote]tylerkeen42 wrote:
I think he’s right theoretically, but to say that he was training for six months, in enough of a caloric surplus to gain 40 pounds and added no muscle is just ridiculous. I think his last paragraph is spot on but that scenario itself is lacking[/quote]

But then how come the strongest men in the world such as virtually all of the pro SHW powerlifters and SHW strongmen, and most of the pro football lineman, etc. out there are obese?

[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:
But then how come the … SHW powerlifters and SHW strongmen … are obese?[/quote]
The clue might be in the name.

Dude I am sorry but most SHW Powerlifters and Strongmen especailly the pros may not be ripped to the bone but most that are winning meets the honest top dogs are not obese. They are just out right massive.

[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:

[quote]tylerkeen42 wrote:
I think he’s right theoretically, but to say that he was training for six months, in enough of a caloric surplus to gain 40 pounds and added no muscle is just ridiculous. I think his last paragraph is spot on but that scenario itself is lacking[/quote]

But then how come the strongest men in the world such as virtually all of the pro SHW powerlifters and SHW strongmen, and most of the pro football lineman, etc. out there are obese?[/quote]

I don’t think they are. If we’re talking about the strongest powerlifters in the world (since this is the powerlifting section) the strongest guys in the world are Andrey Malanichev, Benedict Magnusson, and Eric Spoto. Google them, I wouldn’t consider any of them “obese”. I don’t follow strongman very closely but I don’t think Hafthor Bjornsson is exactly obese and I can’t imagine someone being able to be obese and be competitive in that sport. And as far as pro football linemen go, it depends if you’re looking at O or D line. D line I’d say no way past or present (Joe Greene, Julius Peppers, JJ Watt…) For O line I think that people are starting to get leaner to be more competitive with the defensive guys and the game just being faster in general.

What? You guys are telling me that SHW powerlifters and strongmen competitors like Benedikt magnusson who weighs about 380 lbs. at 6’0" or like Andy Bolton who weighs about 350 lbs. at 6’0" are not obese? Sure, that guys like them have a tremendous amount of muscle mass underneath all the fat that each of them is carrying; however, guys like them weigh much more than a pro male bodybuilder (even during the off-season) whose is or around 6’0".

Also, we all know that pro bodybuilders stay and look relatively lean year round, whereas guys like Benedikt and Andy appear to have 40"+ guts, with round plump thighs and arms, and big double chins. Therefore, it is not possible that each pro SHW powerlifter and strongman competitor is only carrying approx. 20-30 lbs. of fat at the most.

I think it depends on your definition of obese. Jim Wendler, for instance, says his powerlfiting self was fat. there you go. Hafthor Bjornsson, on the other hand, is massive - but you do not really see a metric shit ton of blubber around his waist. He isn’t ripped but he doesn’ seem to be much above 20% bof, probably below.

Here’s the thing: If you are a super heavy weight = open weight class as a powerlifter, extra fat doesn’t seem to be so bad. Waterbury is wrong because eating shitloads while training will give you a certain amount of lean mass which will then be easier to maintain. Simple truth: the more fat you carry, the less your metabolism will eat muscle. So a fattie can carry more lean mass at 30% bodyfat than at 12%.

TL;DR Waterbury’s using strawman arguments as long as powerlifting is all that matters.

Look at Carl Christensen from IPF worlds. He is a SHW and definitely NOT fat.

I think that part of the article was taken out of context and it depends who the reader is. The article is saying you can be lean and strong. In reality, to be as strong as humanly possible you can’t also be lean.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:
I think that part of the article was taken out of context and it depends who the reader is. The article is saying you can be lean and strong. In reality, to be as strong as humanly possible you can’t also be lean, but this is not most peoples goal.[/quote]

I think the fact that as you look through weight classes the totals keep going up is a general indication that gaining size helps lift more weight.
I can see the point Chad is making but I think it is proven to be wrong.

[quote]Angus1 wrote:
I think the fact that as you look through weight classes the totals keep going up is a general indication that gaining size helps lift more weight.
I can see the point Chad is making but I think it is proven to be wrong.[/quote]
That is generally attributed to increased muscle mass. Look at anybody beside the SHW’s (and even some of those) every weight class is won by lean guys

Edit: Jon Cole looks like he’s carrying around some extra weight but give it a couple weeks and my psychic powers tell me there might be a new World Record…

[quote]tylerkeen42 wrote:

[quote]Angus1 wrote:
I think the fact that as you look through weight classes the totals keep going up is a general indication that gaining size helps lift more weight.
I can see the point Chad is making but I think it is proven to be wrong.[/quote]
That is generally attributed to increased muscle mass. Look at anybody beside the SHW’s (and even some of those) every weight class is won by lean guys

Edit: Jon Cole looks like he’s carrying around some extra weight but give it a couple weeks and my psychic powers tell me there might be a new World Record…[/quote]
The so called myth he is refering to is “Myth #4: It takes weight to lift weight!”
I’m saying it’s not a myth.

Hey guys, I’m back. So after reading everyones most recent responses, I think I get it now. You guys are saying that while Waterbury’s example of the guy Sammy not getting stronger after adding 40lbs. of fat is wrong, Waterbury was trying to make the point that you don’t always need to be fat in order to get stronger. Right?

Unless a person, was a completely untrained beginner in lifting weights or never lifted objects of considerable weight before unlike a construction worker or what have you, I believe that gaining 40 lbs. of fat (or over) would actually make the individual much stronger in practically every lifting movement except for pull-ups/chin-ups. Sure, if the guy in Waterbury’s example instead added 40 lbs. of dry muscle to his body then he would indeed gain even much more strength compared to adding 40 lbs. of only fat. However, adding 40lbs. or more of just fat would still significantly increase your overall strength because of the idea that the more your bodyweight is in proportion to your height, the greater leverage you have for heavier weights, regardless of how much fat or muscle muscle mass you have gain. Am I right? That’s a why powerlifter like George Leeman became obese at the beginning off his powerlifting carreer because he realized that that being super fat would tremendously accelerate his strength gains overtime. Late Night Rambling! - YouTube

[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:
However, adding 40lbs. or more of just fat would still significantly increase your overall strength because of the idea that the more your bodyweight is in proportion to your height, the greater leverage you have for heavier weights, regardless of how much fat or muscle muscle mass you have gain. Am I right?[/quote]
Not necessarily.

Getting fat doesn’t make you stronger. Getting stronger makes you stronger. Adding fat may or may not make it easier to get stronger, but I think it’s a mistake to be completely indiscriminate about where that weight comes from.

As far as practically applying that knowledge… if you get fatter, but not stronger, then you probably shouldn’t have added that fat. I don’t think it really needs to be any more complicated than that. Whether you want to add fat to see if it helps you get stronger or not is an entirely personal decision.

You’re not correct. Explain why you think leverages are improved on the bench press, deadlift, or squat by simply adding 40 lbs of fat to a body. If you add 40 lbs to your frame, then when you squat you’ll actually have to move 40 additional pounds. Have you considered that?

Here’s a question for you. What if I put on a ‘fat suit’ right now and went to the gym. This fat suit would weigh 40 lbs, distributed across my body in the way that a person would naturally add fat. So, more mass in the abdominal region, legs, etc. Do you actually think I would bench press, squat, or deadlift more weight than I am currently capable of moving?

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
You’re not correct. Explain why you think leverages are improved on the bench press, deadlift, or squat by simply adding 40 lbs of fat to a body. If you add 40 lbs to your frame, then when you squat you’ll actually have to move 40 additional pounds. Have you considered that?

Here’s a question for you. What if I put on a ‘fat suit’ right now and went to the gym. This fat suit would weigh 40 lbs, distributed across my body in the way that a person would naturally add fat. So, more mass in the abdominal region, legs, etc. Do you actually think I would bench press, squat, or deadlift more weight than I am currently capable of moving?[/quote]

I think would be able to lift a lot more weight in the bench press, OH press, squat, deadlift if you gained that much weight. Rippetoe said in one of his articles that beginners should put on 40 to 50 lbs. of weight in one year. This would mean that Rippetoe would expect that approx. 20-35 lbs. of that total weight gained would be fat and water because no matter how flawless a novice’s nutrition and training program is it’s really not possible for most beginners to gain more than 12-15 lbs. of dry muscle in one year (you’d lucky to put on about 20lbs. of dry muscle. at the most if you are blessed with good genetics for building muscle).

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
You’re not correct. Explain why you think leverages are improved on the bench press, deadlift, or squat by simply adding 40 lbs of fat to a body. If you add 40 lbs to your frame, then when you squat you’ll actually have to move 40 additional pounds. Have you considered that?

Here’s a question for you. What if I put on a ‘fat suit’ right now and went to the gym. This fat suit would weigh 40 lbs, distributed across my body in the way that a person would naturally add fat. So, more mass in the abdominal region, legs, etc. Do you actually think I would bench press, squat, or deadlift more weight than I am currently capable of moving?[/quote]

I think would be able to lift a lot more weight in the bench press, OH press, squat, deadlift if you gained that much weight. Rippetoe said in one of his articles that beginners should put on 40 to 50 lbs. of weight in one year. This would mean that Rippetoe would expect that approx. 20-35 lbs. of that total weight gained would be fat and water because no matter how flawless a novice’s nutrition and training program is it’s really not possible for most beginners to gain more than 12-15 lbs. of dry muscle in one year (you’d lucky to put on about 20lbs. of dry muscle. at the most if you are blessed with good genetics for building muscle).

[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:
Rippetoe said in one of his articles that beginners should put on 40 to 50 lbs. of weight in one year. This would mean that Rippetoe would expect that approx. 20-35 lbs. of that total weight gained would be fat and water because no matter how flawless a novice’s nutrition and training program is it’s really not possible for most beginners to gain more than 12-15 lbs. of dry muscle in one year (you’d lucky to put on about 20lbs. of dry muscle. at the most if you are blessed with good genetics for building muscle). [/quote]
Ok so what’s your point here?

If you put on 12-15 (or even 20) pounds of “dry muscle” in one year, that will definitely help you be stronger.

Just because it came with 20-35 lbs of fat doesn’t mean the fat contributed to the strength.