T Nation

Those Who Say "If You Need an AI, Test Dose is Too High": Do You Not Take HCG?

" Sweet spot is where Testosterone isn’t too high where you need aromatize inhibitor"


If you take HCG than you’d know form blood work that it raises estrogen even more than testosterone does.

Is it possible to take both at the same time and not need aromatize inhibitor by being within normal estrogen range?

I am of the opinion that ai should not be used to get to an exact number. I think purposefully under dosing ai may be a good way to go. Basically not allowing super high levels, but guarding against a crashed E2 at the same time.

I take Test, HCG, and AI, and have not had issues with E2, but I take .125 mg twice a week. If it climbs a bit, that is okay with me.

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This is not usually the case, but there are some who are just genetically blessed where they can be on TRT and HCG without an AI. It really doesn’t matter what everyone else can get away with, what matters is can you get away with TRT plus HCG without an AI.

There’s only one person here that has the ability to answer your question and that’s you.

This is not my definition of the sweet spot.
I take T cyp, HCG and an AI when needed.
The sweet spot to me is where I feel the best with the least bad side effects too high a TT brings.

I’m starting to think some may need higher test levels to feel something, paired with a lower e2 number that can only be achieved with an ai.

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(((YEAH))) thank you roscoe somebody else gets it.

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I went to that Endo. I gave her past labs. She wants scrotum ultrasound, new lab before 11am. She mentioned she starts at 50mg if testosterone is actually needed…than goes up to 75,than 100. She’s very hesitant to even prescribe if necessary it seems. Also doesn’t believe me in prescribing hcg, anastrozole as she’s says it’s unnecessary and only happens when test dose is too high. I guess endos are more conservative than low T clinics. Is that normal?
I want my PCP to do the 100mg he previously agreed with. Hopefully he agrees to pay get me back on this Friday appointment . Although I wouldn’t know what to tell him about why I’m not sticking with endo.

There is going to be a lot of guys that hate that statement but it is true. Guys just like taking more and the truth be damned. 80-100mg for most guys no Ai is required. HCG has nothing to do with it. I take HCG to keep ball pain away.

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Yeah I don’t care about taking a ‘high’ trt dose anymore…if I wanted to build extra muscle I’d take sarms lol. However I wouldn’t want a dose that put me like 300-600…

I don’t even know if I should go with her vs my PCP if he says yes…I’m going to see what he says about coninuting trt with him for first time since July 2018.

I assume insurance is paying for either. T monotherapy is pretty easy to manage if you stay at 100mg/wk or less. You don’t really need to do much more. If you get T cyp or E once a week makes it even easier. One shot Sunday night or Monday morning an you can forget about it and enjoy your life. No playing doctor on yourself and thinking about hormones 24/7. This is the direction have moved to after 5 years of the other. I do still blast twice a year which I really enjoy.

50 mg is probably worse than nothing, honestly. That being said, it’s better to use what you need, and it’s easier to figure that out by starting low and building up. You really want to take the least amount of any medication that you can get away with to avoid negative sides. The AI i a personal thing. I used it initially because I bloated up like the Michelin man, but now I seem to be just fine with none. If you find a little AI necessary, use a little, as little as possible. Don’t consider it a permanent necessity. Up the dose until you’re “right” with the test. Your number may not be my number. Your endo should be open to dosing what is necessary, but I personally think cautious ones are operating in your best interest in the long run.

In all honesty I believe if you are lean enough, eat well and train well then you shouldn’t need an ai. That said though I do appreciate note everyone has the time or inclination to eat healthy, train hard and be lean so they have their place to help those people.
Personally I am on 35mg sust eod, and 125iu hcg ed. I don’t use an ai.
My levels are
T - 32 (range is something like 12-29)
FT - 700 (again something like 200-670)
E - 150 (something - 190)
Apologies for not having the ranges to hand but you can see roughly where I sit. Slightly over on both T’s and midrange on E (non sensitive).

Wow, so she’s new at this TRT game. This always causes needless suffering for the patient.

I don’t see this doctor optimizing your levels, but in fact keeping your levels are low as possible all in the name of playing it safe.

Cut the umbilical cord and start looking for a new doctor.

I stopped taking 160mg/week test like 6 or 7 weeks ago cold turkey …lost count actually. I think I ‘downsized’ because I look slightly smaller. Is this possible? I’m starting 100mg/week on Monday though.

You probably just lost some water weight. Over the last 5 years I have experimented with everything from 80 to 150 on TRT and blasting as high a 400. I had no improvement in size when on TRT doses it made no different if I was taking 80 or 150/wk You have to really socket it to yourself and blast at least 300 to see any improvement in stength. Screwing around in the TRT ranges is just causing E2 and HCT issues. Find what works for TRT that keeps your E2 and HCT in check and blast a couple times a year if you are looking to put on some muscle.

That’s good to know! I was freaking out! I’ve been eating bad yet my weight is either the same or slightly down. Plus my limbs and other body parts looks like lost some size even though strength hasn’t decreased from weight lifting.