T Nation

Thomas Jane Out on Punisher 2

From Ain’t It Cool News:

Jane’s own words:
"[i]I’m writing to tell you that I regretfully and painfully had to pull out of P2. I can’t tell you how completely broken up I am about it. After busting my ass at the gym four days a week for almost two years, watching every character driven action pic that any fan would ask me to watch while I was standing in line buying egg whites and Tuna fish (Leon the Professional, Oldboy, The Seven-Ups (GREAT flick), Point Blank, Escape from NY, The Driver, Magnum Force, The Mechanic, The Great Silence, Sexy Beast, Nighthawks, Cry Vengeance (check it out), Road Warrior, Man on Fire, Outlaw Josey Wales, Rocky (think about it), Serpico, etc etc etc.)

after countless Saturday nights making notes and drinking soda water and munching on seaweed sticks while my daughter slept on my lap to the sound of automatic gunfire, (now she can’t sleep without it. I had to make a tape of automatic gunfire to play in her room at night) after hauling myself to any ‘Guns! Knifes! Ammo!’ show in any small town that I found myself in shooting Killshot or The Mist or Mutant Chronicles, after torn ligaments, screwed up rotator cuffs, thousands of $$$ on ridiculously huge vitamins, overly long conversations with frighteningly tall men about The Fastest Way To Kill Someone With Your Bare Hands, and after a dude refused to sell me a Fatburger at 2am on Santa Monica Blvd, I am, sadly - no, make that heartbrokenly - fuck it - just rip out the heart and stomp it into the pavement a couple of times - pulling out.

Punisher fans are already fighting an uphill battle as it is. And I’ve always felt a responsibility to fight that fight for them and with them so that Frank Castle gets the treatment he deserves.

I’m sharing this with you because I know you’re a fan, like me, and you’ve got your ear to the ground, and because we seem to share the same sort of taste and passion when it comes to movies and stories that get us off.

What I won’t do is spend months of my life sweating over a movie that I just don’t believe in. I’ve always loved the Marvel guys, and wish them well. Meanwhile, I’ll continue to search for a film that one day might stand with all those films that the fans have asked me to watch.

Sincerely,
Thomas Jane[/i]"

Damn.

I must admit I was hoping for a great sequel, so maybe not making this movie is better than f*cking it up.

Chances are they are just going to go ahead and make it anyway. What a waste of a great character.

I respect him more for turning down the role if the script sucks that badly. I feel like Bale would do the same thing with Batman. Maybe turning down the role will make them rethink the direction they were going.

I respect him now even more than I did after seeing Deep Blue Sea.

Frank Castle is dead. Long live Frank Castle.

There was a script floating around for this movie a year or two ago, and from what I remember it was terrible. Good call by Jane, too bad though I thought he did great in the first one despite it being a watered down treatment of the comic books.

Yknow Ive never felt hollywood could do the story of Francis justice anyway. Dolph was laughable, and I thought the first one wasnt much better. It would do much better IMO in the line of ‘Chopper’ with Eric Bana type of screenplay. You just cant do this movie right and try to get major box office money at the same time.

It would have to be more of a small studio, sundance style indie flick to truly get into Franks world for real without the hollywood cheeze.

[quote]Frank Castle wrote:
You just cant do this movie right and try to get major box office money at the same time. [/quote]

Maybe they need to approach it like Blade did in the first movie (before they figured out it would make money…I don’t even think the first one did that well at the Box office but raked it in for DVD).

There was no Marvel intro on the first Blade flick and I am sure many would consider that the best one of the three with the last sucking really really bad. With each successive movie, they got more and more “Hollywood” and fucked over the character.

If they accepted that this isn’t a “kid movie” and pushed an all out R rating, they could get it done. They screw up when they make a character like that completely acceptable for people who have never heard of him.

If the script for Punisher 2 was that bad, I’m not looking forward to any of the other movies coming out.

I think you’re right though, most of these movies seem screwed the moment they get slated to pull in big money at the theaters over putting together a good story.

Jane just wasn’t believable as the Punisher for me. He was too goddamned cuddly.

With him withdrawing from the project I would hope they decide to can the movie as well.

Unfortunately we all know that won’t be the way it will work.

How hard can it be to come up with a half-decent script for this?

Castle doesn’t have superpowers, so you don’t need millions in CGI and special effects; he’s just a highly trained ex-military with cash, guns, attitude and nothing to lose.

I always liked the secondary characters who had no superpowers, or very minor ones. Punisher, Scourge, Elektra, etc. Yet, they seem to be the ones who have the hardest time getting ported to the big screen. It took what? 4 or 5 Batmans to get a really decent one?

I found the 1st Punisher movie to be somewhere between okay and decent. I liked the way they gave him a reason for wearing that skull T-shirt; I didn’t buy the part where the dopey kids resists being tortured by mob guys. That’s one pussy mob guy, let me tell you.

I also felt that Castle’s plan, while subtle and devious, was not quite in character. Unless the Punisher character has changed a lot since I’ve read comics, he wasn’t really known for Wile E. Coyote Evil Genius type plans back then. More of a “Go in and shoot everything that moves” type of guy.

Isn’t that what we want from a Punisher movie? To see evil sacks of shit being blown away in various creative and gruesome fashion?

[quote]pookie wrote:

Isn’t that what we want from a Punisher movie? To see evil sacks of shit being blown away in various creative and gruesome fashion?
[/quote]

I totally agree with this!

jpb

[quote]Frank Castle wrote:
Yknow Ive never felt hollywood could do the story of Francis justice anyway. Dolph was laughable, and I thought the first one wasnt much better. It would do much better IMO in the line of ‘Chopper’ with Eric Bana type of screenplay. You just cant do this movie right and try to get major box office money at the same time.

It would have to be more of a small studio, sundance style indie flick to truly get into Franks world for real without the hollywood cheeze. [/quote]

Can’t argue with this man.

[quote]pookie wrote:
How hard can it be to come up with a half-decent script for this?

Castle doesn’t have superpowers, so you don’t need millions in CGI and special effects; he’s just a highly trained ex-military with cash, guns, attitude and nothing to lose.

[/quote]

Exactly. Thats the vein they need to continue in. In fact, I’ve always thought that his comics did better when they kept the rest of the Marvel world out of it. Trying to make him a superhero is bullshit.

Frank and Micro vs. Kingpin and his criminal empire. Maybe make it current with some kind of plot where frank infiltrates some terrorist cell in NY. Shit like that. Marvel fucks themselves on this one.

They need to make Denzel into Pun and have him rock out like in Training Day. Thats how they need to play this. Straight up gritty action flick with a great story. Sans cheeze. Thats what fans of this series want anyway.

I guarantee your actual Punisher fan could give a shit less about the Marvel universe, and most likely does not fit the mold of X men/Spiderman/Hulk fans. Trying to capture that audience with a hollywood blockbuster formula that tweens can go see is not gonna work.

[quote]LUEshi wrote:
Jane just wasn’t believable as the Punisher for me. He was too goddamned cuddly. [/quote]

Second that. He’s way too pretty for Frank Castle. Vinnie Jones with 50 lbs more muscle and no accent would be perfect.

Of course it’s not hard to do this movie but hollywood execs must be retarded! I hated the first one. I didn’t mind the start then it just got so completely stupid it was unbearable to the point of laughter. Seriously, the exploding cars to make a giant flaming skull on the ground. I hate stupid shit like that. The 7 year olds behind me in the theater thought it was great though. My point exactly.

The elaborate kill traps had me groaning. The russian who appears out of no where wearing the most stereotypical russian get up I’ve ever seen could have been handled better.

Here is the Punisher quick and dirty:

5-10 min back story…then 120 min of revenge.

Revenge = angry guy in skull tee shooting guns and stabbing people.

Not too hard.

Or just watch the Borne Identity for some ideas. Ha! :stuck_out_tongue:

Batman begins is how you make a comic book adaption.

[quote]ArcaneCocaine wrote:

The elaborate kill traps had me groaning. The russian who appears out of no where wearing the most stereotypical russian get up I’ve ever seen could have been handled better.

Here is the Punisher quick and dirty:

5-10 min back story…then 120 min of revenge.

Revenge = angry guy in skull tee shooting guns and stabbing people.

Not too hard.
[/quote]

A big part of what makes the punisher such a loved comic is the dark and grisly humor. The Russian was a great funny character and I’m glad they brought him in. I just wish he had kept some of his personality from the comics and didn’t just become a big henchman.

The problem with comic book movies is that they usually magnify one quality about a universe while cutting out the rest.

[quote]Naphta wrote:
ArcaneCocaine wrote:

The elaborate kill traps had me groaning. The russian who appears out of no where wearing the most stereotypical russian get up I’ve ever seen could have been handled better.

Here is the Punisher quick and dirty:

5-10 min back story…then 120 min of revenge.

Revenge = angry guy in skull tee shooting guns and stabbing people.

Not too hard.

A big part of what makes the punisher such a loved comic is the dark and grisly humor. The Russian was a great funny character and I’m glad they brought him in. I just wish he had kept some of his personality from the comics and didn’t just become a big henchman.

The problem with comic book movies is that they usually magnify one quality about a universe while cutting out the rest.
[/quote]

I agree with your last paragraph. I still think they could have done that part much better…as well as the rest of the movie.

An average script with no stupidness is all I’m asking. If they have a great script all the better. Just not a stupid one! :wink:

[quote]ArcaneCocaine wrote:
Seriously, the exploding cars to make a giant flaming skull on the ground. I hate stupid shit like that.[/quote]

I’d forgotten all about that… probably blocked out the memory because it’s so painful.

Making a Punisher movie for children is like writing erotic fiction for pre-schoolers. It’s completely stupid.

Silly costumes are pretty standard in comic books, I can deal with that.

I see much weirder stuff at the mall every week anyway.

[quote]Here is the Punisher quick and dirty:

5-10 min back story…then 120 min of revenge.

Revenge = angry guy in skull tee shooting guns and stabbing people.[/quote]

You forgot explosions. Gotta have a few of those.

so what does everybody think would be a good replacment