T Nation

This Sucks...No Size Gains

I’ve been working out and following T-Nation for the past 2.5 months and my strenght gains have been decent but my size gains are depressing. I took a week off last b./c of spring break and it seems like i’ve lost everything i put on in the last 2 months. Either T-Nation sucks, or the programs i’ve tried have sucks, or i don’t know what i’m doing. my diet is decent. i was doing massive eating, but its a shitty diet plan because in order to get 4000 calories a day eating fat and protein and carbs separely you need to eat more meals then one has time for in the day.

Right now i’m just gonna try to eat relatively healthy and eat as much as possible, but none of that healthy eating shit.

anyways, what program should i try? i was doing ABBH, and it was fun, but i’m 19 and i’ve got a lot of energy, and the programs basically tell you to do 4 exerceises and leave. i don’t leave the gym sore, and i don’t feel like i’m working. I was working out every other day, but i’m gonna start working out 6 days a week because i have the time and because the programs that tell you to workout 3 days a week are for people whose bodies are not growing and recovering as fast.

Anyways, i’m extremely frusterated, and i need a new program and some guidance.

uaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

holy ass you need to calm down. do not come on this site and say it sucks, then ask the users to help you. You have to quantify your information. You are saying that you have no gains, but then after a layoff you lost what you gained. You said you are going to eat healthy, but none of that healthy eating shit.

Relax, buddy, one problem at a time. One goal at a time. Strength gain without increased size of muscles is a common problem. Stronger muscles will allow you to lift heavier weights for higher reps.

i won’t say too much because i am just a beginner as well as far as diet goes, but i believe to get that 4000 calories you need to eat like 7 meals every 2 and 1/2 to 3 hours. you should be able to find some way to schedule that into your day.i think there is a bunch of posts and articles about diet that you could look at.

You know, you’re right. You should just give up; I mean 2.5 months should have packed on 30-40 lbs of good solid muscle…

Berardi is full of it too. He is just telling us to eat that way to keep us down so he looks better. Frozen pizza is the best way to add LBM without gaining fat, JB just doesn’t want you to know that.

Everyone is against you and trying to keep you down.

(sarcasm for the sarcasm illiterate)

I remember back in my late teens when I used to workout everyday for no less then an hour. I just kept working out. Sometimes I went back to the gym because I had some energy in me. Kind of funny why none of my lifts went up. LOL!

I’ve made more gains following T Nation workout programs then I ever have.

Also, the originator of this thread says the programs here on T Nation are for people who can’t recover as fast as him. Well, if the guy can recover so fast, he should be making serious gains.

[quote]Snoop wrote:
Frozen pizza is the best way to add LBM without gaining fat, JB just doesn’t want you to know that.[/quote]

Can I take Surge with Frozen pizza? Or can I mix it up and take Surge with, say, take out pizza

LOL

Snoop is right. I call it the info-gestapo!

No, seriously, It takes a long time to build serious mass and strength. Alot of the programs here are for people who have maxed out an already extensive cache of tools for putting on mass and strength.

So, Keep eating smart, and lifting. It gets better. Building is a self perpetuating cycle, so just keep going.

First of all stop whining. That’s not going to get you anywhere and it’s annoying for people who really want to help you meet your goals to have to read or listen to.

The fact that you don’t feel like you’re working has nothing to do with the program you’re on, it’s that you’re not putting in the effort.

I doubt going to six days a week will help. Three or even two hard full-body workouts a week are better for most people in your situation.

Of course you can eat quality food six or seven times a day. First eat a solid breakfast lunch and dinner. Then make something and eat it three or four more times a day. Try mixing tuna and non-fat cottage cheese together and washing it down with water.

Are you sleeping enough, 9-10 hours a night? If you’re not, start.

How many programs could you possibly have finished in 2.5 months?

You need to pick a program, and stick with it!

Besides, as a beginner, you’ll notice strength gains happening in the first 8 weeks (apx.), as your CNS become more efficient, then the size gains will start to kick in.

You’ve got to be patient - no one has ever gotten huge overnight.

Also, you do need to learn how to rest and recover. You don’t grow in the gym - it’s the stimulus. Don’t measure a programs effectiveness in how sore you are; it doesn’t work that way.

But, if you feel you aren’t getting enough from 3 days a week, try some of CT’s programs that have 4 or 5 day splits. OVT comes to mind.

Don’t expect immediate results, but give it your all.

ok. i’m calm now.

some specific problems that i’m having

1-determing the rep amount. I know each individual person responds more to higher or lower reps but how do i figure that out for myself?

2-I feel like a bum if i don’t go to the gym and since i’m only 19 why can’t i hit the gym 5 or even 6 days a week?

3-I find myself eating a lot less if i watch what i eat and make sure the carbs are in a perfect ratio and the fat is in equilibrium and that my protein levels are the square root of the two other macronutrients divided by two. Can’t i just eat a lot of fat, carbs and protein and i’ll be fine? This is probbaly the most frusterating because its hard to make 7 or 8 meals a day when they are all the same thing.

4-Worrying about overtraining. I find myself leaving the gym not sore, and not working. yet i’ve spent 2 hours there making sure i’m resting 2 minutes between each set and not doing that extra set even though i feel fine.

5-here are my stats. 182, 5’11. big legs, decent sized chest and some ab defition when flexing(bulking cycle). Unfortunately, i’m not very strong and i think i just have a good fat coverage(makes muscles look bigger). Relative to other skinny guys i’m strong and fit, but when in the gym, i can’t max 225 on the bench. (my legs are much stronger).

anyways, thanks for listening and reading

Don’t even think about what’s wrong with your training. If your training were really the problem, you’d be gaining fat.

Eat more. If the pounds added on are fat, then maybe it’s your training/lifestyle.

How much do you actually squat and deadlift? You can’t be like “My legs are strong!” without backing it up. There’s plenty of people with big weak legs.

If you’re worried about overtraining then stop going to the gym 2 hours a day for5 or 6 days a week. I used to do this. I overtrained and got injured.

Maybe Massive Eating isn’t the diet for you. Why don’t you look on the site and find one you like?

You should utilize all rep ranges and not just a specific one tailored for you. Read TBT or one of TC’s older programs… (Wave Progression maybe?) They utilize reps in different ranges for optimal performance.

2.5 isn’t enough for anything to really happen. And you just took a week off for spring break?!? I’m down 3 lbs after spring break, my friend is down 6 after spring break. I’m sure after I put some water and actual food back into me I’ll fill back out somewhat.

You just need to read and eat and lift. Try a program and stick with it. Get a feel for how you respond to different things and maybe after a year (preferably more) you can ask those questions again.

Hawkson101, I am not nearly as knowledgeable as some but let me share some things that I consider to be essential for growth and strength.

1.) As others have said, gaining lean muscle mass is a difficult and takes time, lots of time (i.e. years). If you are what is referred to as a hardgainer then it is even more of an uphill battle, and will take serious sacrifice on your part to get to where you want to be.

2.) Are you sure you are eating 4,000 cals a day. I know that I am a hardgainer, and constantly have to remind myself to eat with post-it notes or other methods (i.e. make your computer background something like this “If there is not food in my hands…I will never get HUGE!!!” or something equally obnoxious for motivation).

3.) Intensity, Intensity, Intensity. I know the High Intensity Training or Super Slow Methods have been criticized, but I believe at the very least in the mental power that can be harnessed to greatly benefit your workouts and your physique. If this were not the case then why would an awesome supplement company like Biotest come up with supplements like Power Drive or Spike? Furthermore, not to bring myself too much into this, but I have never liked puking, and it is definitely not a good thing when gaining weight, but my workouts usually leave me feeling as if I have accomplished something and on the brink (sometimes) of hurling especially during Squats.

4.) Finally, get lots of rest. I am not a big party person or consumer of alcoholic beverages, and so getting 8+ hours of sleep is possible, but still requires a conscious effort on my part. If you can get more, as someone mentioned, that is even better.

I am not trying to be an @sshole or put you down, but a lot of people don’t achieve their fitness goals because they create unrealistic goals setting themselves up for failure, or they don’t realize how much time, energy, and effort it requires to get to a certain level of fitness. Good luck…

You really need to spend some time reading anything you can get your hands on regarding nutrition and weight lifting. If you have the time, scan this site as often as possible. To get big and stay big is going to require you have a better understanding of both diet and working out. I’m not trying to give you a blow-off reply, but there are so many questions and possibilities in your post to seriously respond.

Lifting big requires calories–the cleaner the better. Getting big requires relatively quick-paced workouts with heavy weights and then giving your body adequate rest and recovery time. You have to find that threshold that works for you.

Some guys do great lifting 5days a week some do better lifting 3. But really to have lifted only 2 or 3 months and expecting any kind of results is a little naive. Keep working hard. Start TODAY keeping a food log as well as a training log. Have fun-lift hard.

[quote]Hawkson101 wrote:
ok. i’m calm now.

some specific problems that i’m having

1-determing the rep amount. I know each individual person responds more to higher or lower reps but how do i figure that out for myself?[/quote]

Experiment. Most would agree 3-6 for strength, 6-15 for hypertrophy (muscle gain). Bottom line, your goal should be to get stronger in every main lift.

others will say to lay off. I say eat more. I love lifting, it sounds like you do too, so do it. I know that no matter what anyone tells you, you will not realize that less is more until YOU want to. Realize that while lifting is fun, you will not get bigger if you lift everyday, unless you (quite possibly) have rare genetics. 3 days a week WILL give you the best gains. Decide what you want: to 1)lift all the time or 2) to get bigger. If you are able to get stronger every time (either lift more weight, or the same wieght for more reps) while lifting 6 days, 2 hours at a day, then go for it. Also, overtraining is not cancer. I have been there, and you probably wont do any permanent damage, so don’t worry about it so much.

You do not have to calculate everything (funny stuff) but you HAVE TO divide your calories into at leats 5-6 meals. You cannot just pig out all day. Life’s a bitch.

already addressed.

no comment.

[quote]
anyways, thanks for listening and reading[/quote]

A couple good points I wanted to make and have been brought up allready:

If your a true beginner your body will spend a good period of time just learnign the lifts and not gaining weight (as mentioned I have read upwards of 6-8 weeks before a total newb can expect to start putting on mass of any significance)

If you didnt gain muscle or fat you simply werent eating enough! Even if you don’t plan every meal you should keep a food log at least for awhile so you know how many calories your taking in and see how your body is responding. After a period of time where you have hit a good balance with your diet to support your goals you can rely on the log less or even totally drop it as big eating may have become habit for you.

Something I wanted to add is unless your spring break involved lots of long distance running and you werent eating anything it is highly unlikely you had any muscle loss over that one week break.

Also you mention your doing ABBH and also that your spending 2 hours in the gym… its either one or the other or your doing the program wrong so your results won’t be the same as Waterbury originally planned. You can’t say a program sucks if your not doing it right, don’t stick with it long enough, or don’t eat enough.

The rest periods in ABBH I and ABBH II are either 60 or 75 seconds between sets. There’s no reason to be in the gym for 2 hours at a time.

Cheers,

Soup

Also it will be helpful for everyone to know:

-age
-training experiance
-body weight
-height
-max in Squat/dead/bench/# of pullups

Also what exact training have you been doing for the last 2.5 months and what are the actual numbers of calories/protien/carbs/fat you have been eating and if you have been eating consistantly.

Finally have you seen ZERO fat and/or muscle gain over this period of time?

[quote]Hawkson101 wrote:
I’ve been working out and following T-Nation for the past 2.5 months and my strenght gains have been decent but my size gains are depressing. I took a week off last b./c of spring break and it seems like i’ve lost everything i put on in the last 2 months. Either T-Nation sucks, or the programs i’ve tried have sucks, or i don’t know what i’m doing. my diet is decent. i was doing massive eating, but its a shitty diet plan because in order to get 4000 calories a day eating fat and protein and carbs separely you need to eat more meals then one has time for in the day.

Right now i’m just gonna try to eat relatively healthy and eat as much as possible, but none of that healthy eating shit.

anyways, what program should i try? i was doing ABBH, and it was fun, but i’m 19 and i’ve got a lot of energy, and the programs basically tell you to do 4 exerceises and leave. i don’t leave the gym sore, and i don’t feel like i’m working. I was working out every other day, but i’m gonna start working out 6 days a week because i have the time and because the programs that tell you to workout 3 days a week are for people whose bodies are not growing and recovering as fast.

Anyways, i’m extremely frusterated, and i need a new program and some guidance.

uaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh[/quote]

If you read anything on this site (since you figure you almost can determine that it the advice here may “suck”) you would not have written much less be thinking half of what you are, it all sounds very, very naive.

About the age issues and thinking it will give you that much of a positive. I am 19 too, but it doesn’t make you immortal and it really doesn’t seem to have some sort of mythical effect. 19 or 44, if you lift 6 times a week for 2 hours at a time you will overtrain, and if don’t you probably ain’t going to be growing shit, especially if you don’t have those nice “supplements” and “Vitamin S”.

You need to not only read training programs but read all information regarding training, hypotrophy and how it all works, to fully understand how and what you should be doing. The rest of what you write sounds like this atypical whine-fest that many of these select few guys on here keep making posts complaining, either they are too tall, too short, and seem more wanting to bitch and give up rather than just do what they can do to the best of their ability.

About you saying that because you took a week off you lost all of the supposed gains you made over 2 months…bullshit, flat out bullshit. If anything you taking a week off from your Overtraining would help things, and if this is a slight change in weight we are talking about it’s nothing much, I doubt you lost an ounce of muscle, but the question is how much do you already have. I think you are one of those “pumpers”, you need to feel the pump to feel “HYOOOOGE” and if you don’t work out for 2 days you have some sort of psychological mindstorm where you think you just lost pounds of muscle…which is more than doubtful.

I say read a ton of stuff, because you seem unaware, naive, or just flat wrong in many of your assumptions, good luck mate.

lol,man let me tell ya what i’ve expierenced.im 5’8 and weigh 160.i was having the exact same problem for about two years.taking creatine no2 and the best protein powder didnt help abit with size.my strength would increase but not my size.i got so frustrated i quit for about 6 months.so i turned to anabolics,i got back in shape for about 3 months and hit a cycle and gained 20 lbs of solid in 8 weeks.the thing is i didnt need the aas.i was on an aas forum and a guy pointed me in the direction of a site called fitday.com and that changed my life completly.

i didnt realize how much eating it takes to hit my needs.eating is like a full time job and for an athlete its almost impossible to train n gain. i wish i would have waited to hit the roids,but i dont regret the gains seeing how 8 weeks put on more weight than 2 years of supps.the thing u need to do is lift fewer times and more intense,REST,EAT a ton,and try to save all those much needed cals.DON’T do like i did and turn to aas,im only 22 and were not ready for em.if ur getting stronger and not gaining weight thats more evidence that your not eating enough.bump that shit up a few ks and see what happens.i know what your going through cause my energy level is through roof and resting is so difficult.keep eating huge and keep your lifts short and intense.good luck and remember slow and steady wins the race.