Does anyone remember the old Saturday Night Live skit when they do the All Drug Olympics?
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Does anyone remember the old Saturday Night Live skit when they do the All Drug Olympics?[/quote]
yeah…that was hilarious! the guy rips off his arms deadlifting or something…
hey, i do agre with many of you that said if you’re competing where it says “no steroids” and you use them, it’s cheating.
whoever made the point about the average person who doesn’t work out is never gonna understand steorids is dead-on.
i’m gonna have to go ahead and change my stance a little bit and play devil’s advocate. AGAIN, i’m not trying to disrespect anyone because steroids are a personal choice BUT…i can even understand how the average every day lifter who doesn’t compete in anything could feel cheated by someone choosing to take steroids. now i agree that if steroids are taken the right way with the right supervision they can be safe and they cause much less side effects, deaths, and overall problems than alcohol or nicotine BUT they are still an illegal drug that COULD cause horrible side effects.
now say Mr. average every day gym goer is not willing to risk the ramifications taht could come with using steroids but he is the gym workin hard just like you, watching what he eats just like you, trying to do things right just like you, yet you are far bigger, stronger, and more muscular i can see how they could feel cheated. To say that just because you’ve researched it or you know how to use it right or it isn’t any worse than using any other recreational drug or you just don’t care really doesn’t mean shit because it is still an illegal drug and until the powers that be change that you are still getting an unfair advantage.
[quote]Babalu wrote:
I fight in the 170lb range (Welterweights) and most dry themselves out from like 190… i also consider this to be bullshit…my two cents[/quote]
Not roided, not going to address the AAS issue. But this makes you look like a moron.
Drying out, cutting, sucking down, whatever it’s called, is a naturally advantageous strategy, and it is nearly universal in combat sports and present in almost any sport with weight classes. I think you would sing a different tune if you had the mass to live at 190. If everyone were forced to fight at their ‘natural’ weight instead of, you know, doing what’s best for them:
-Randy Couture would be a retired former heavyweight champion and that’s it
-BJ Penn vs. Matt Hughes would never have happened
-Rich Franklin’s ascendancy at the expense of both Evan Tanner and Ken Shamrock would not be
-No one would care about Josh Koscheck or Mike Swick because they would both be getting KTFO by bigger guys
-Phil Baroni and Tito Ortiz, in general
Somehow, I think all these professionals, and the history of the sport, might have a valid solution, and you might be mistaken about its value.
[quote]CS wrote:
i’m gonna have to go ahead and change my stance a little bit and play devil’s advocate. AGAIN, i’m not trying to disrespect anyone because steroids are a personal choice BUT…i can even understand how the average every day lifter who doesn’t compete in anything could feel cheated by someone choosing to take steroids. now i agree that if steroids are taken the right way with the right supervision they can be safe and they cause much less side effects, deaths, and overall problems than alcohol or nicotine BUT they are still an illegal drug that COULD cause horrible side effects.
now say Mr. average every day gym goer is not willing to risk the ramifications taht could come with using steroids but he is the gym workin hard just like you, watching what he eats just like you, trying to do things right just like you, yet you are far bigger, stronger, and more muscular i can see how they could feel cheated. To say that just because you’ve researched it or you know how to use it right or it isn’t any worse than using any other recreational drug or you just don’t care really doesn’t mean shit because it is still an illegal drug and until the powers that be change that you are still getting an unfair advantage.[/quote]
Maybe you see things a little differently than me. The type of bodybuilding/strength training I do is strictly for me. Of course, sometimes I’ll think, “hey this guy is pretty big, I wonder how my physique compares to his”, just because I’m a really competitive man. But I don’t worry about it and wouldn’t accuse him of cheating if he let me know he’s juicing.
The point I’m trying to make is we shouldn’t get caught up with how we compare to someone else to the point of calling them cheaters, unless we’re in a competition. It’s basically just a solo sport that you do for yourself. Your only competition is you. I’ve learned that once we start reaching our goals, we care less about what others are doing.
[quote]Babalu wrote:
Im an amateur MMA fighter… [/quote]
Where do you train? Do you train BJJ with Jeff Wiley?
[quote]mikekatz wrote:
While I agree that educated guys such as the members of this board are responsible enough to take anabolics, the majority of prospective juicers are not…this sucks for us, but ultimately will prevent the avg. joe who’s wanting to get huuuuuuge overnight from walking into a supp store and downing a handful of dianabol as if it were skittles.
MK[/quote]
Really though there are and were many products on the market legally that are steroids renamed and re-classified, such as the various prohormones. Alot of people knew about prohormones and what they could do, and how they are similar to steroids, but Ive never heard of the average Joe buying using and abusing them, most people I know of that bought pro-hormones were body builders. Im thinking if steroids were more legal that would probably be the case as well.
[quote]CS wrote:
now say Mr. average every day gym goer is not willing to risk the ramifications taht could come with using steroids but he is the gym workin hard just like you, watching what he eats just like you, trying to do things right just like you, yet you are far bigger, stronger, and more muscular i can see how they could feel cheated. [/quote]
If Mr Average Everyday Gym Goer is feeling cheated because someone else is making more progress than him, then he has issues that he should sort out. Bluntly, I don’t fucking care how they feel if I’m making better progress than them. I lift to improve myself and to get stronger. Why do they lift?
[quote]Babalu wrote:
…they hit like girls cuz their arms are so heavy with muscle…[/quote]
Why are you on a weightlifting forum when you use bs logic like this? I don’t see why you’d even lift weights, given that they are going to make your arms “heavy with muscle.” Do yourself a favor, go watch the Bob Sapp vs. Ernesto Hoost fight. Hoost tries to go punch for punch with Sapp and Sapp beats the crap out of him. Hoost has way better technique, he has better stamina, but Sapp has about 100 lbs of muscle on Hoost. Sapp is one of the worst technical fighters I have ever seen and he beats one of the world’s best through pure muscle (and Hoost’s stupidity).
And for those guys who you say punch like girls, try taking a punch from someone who has 50 lbs more muscle than you do.
babalu if you were 162 at 10% BF you’d probably hit a lot harder…
[quote]CS wrote:
people probably accuse you of cheating because you are, in fact, cheating. steroids are an illegal drug that give you an unfair advantage over athletes who choose not to use steroids. i guess i just don’t see any validity in your argument. TRUE, you still have to work hard to get where you want to be (if you are using steroids) but never the less, you are still using an illegal drug that is giving you an unfair advantage. basically what you’re saying is that just because you still have to lift weights and watch your diet that you are not cheating and that is just ludacris. another point to your argument was that if you use them right and don’t incur any side effects then you aren’t cheating…but you still are. taht really has nothing to do with your argument.
bottom line is that steroids are an illegal drug and by you choosing to take them you have an unfair advantage over those who choose to not use them. i have no problem with people using steroids. you are right in saying that you are an adult and make your own choices but don’t come on here and try to say you’re not cheating by taking them because that is just stupid.[/quote]
Then why don’t those people who don’t want to jucie join some super stringent organization that keeps the chemistry fair? 'Cause no one cares. Everyone has access to the same drugs, some people choose not to use them and they choose to lose. Otherwise they’d join a different organization.
If anything, I want an all drug organization, the more chemistry the better. Take baseball for example. No one wants to see a bunch of limp dicks making base hits, we want to see monsters smash the ball. Hell, I’d like to see Tiger Woods launch the ball 500 yards.
Of course, that’s a fanciful notion because we all know that drugs alone don’t ensure sports performance. We do know that right?
Oh, and if you’re juicing but not participating in an organization that bans it, you’re not “cheating”. Breaking the law perhaps, but not cheating. If you’re lifting for your physique and you juice who has the right to tell you that’s cheating? Where do you draw the line? How about it’s cheating if you eat more than three meals a day? Or more than 2000 kcals? Why not make it real fair by giving everyone the same ration and forcing them to all perform the same exact exercise regimen?
the thing about dianabol is you get your “mini” cycle, i say mini cycle because you just know it aint gonna be enough until you take the max recomended amount and basically turn almost all of the way into a giant pimple that is ready to pop.
yeah, i would also like a presciption.
Huey - you mentioned Ben Johnson beating ‘the american dude’. Ha, I bet Carl Lewis would shudder in his track shoes at not being remembered! Anyways, although good 'ol Ben was, was still during his suspensions, and probably is still juicing, it’s a pretty widely-accepted thought that Carl was juicing just as much. He’s just smarter and didn’t get caught. Kinda ironic isn’t it? Take the gold away from one guy for juicing, and then passing it to another guy who was. By the way, I’m Canadian and live in Korea now. You wouldn’t believe how many people ask me if I remember Ben Johson in the '88 olympics.
[quote]mindeffer01 wrote:
Do cops even give a crap about roids? The last one I talked to asked if I was juicing like you would ask someone what time it was. Then we started b.s.ing about supps and lifting. It was actualy kind of funny. I don’t use so I can’t speak about the pro’s and cons from personal experience, but there is a lot worse out there that a person can do than build some muscle.[/quote]
Cops actually care a whole bunch, at least in my area. There was just a big sting at one of the gyms in my town about a year ago where they not only netted guys selling them, but a bunch of cops that were using them. I don;t know what ended up happening, but I know they were arrested.
And true, with nothing to compete in, or in something like bodybuilding, where you almost have to take them in order to keep up, it isn’t cheating. however, in a sport like baseball or the Olympics, you follow the letter of the law…if it says no juicing, then no juicing, and I have no sympathy for the guys who get caught.
Its more following the letter of the law in your sport than saying, “cheating or not”.
[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Does anyone remember the old Saturday Night Live skit when they do the All Drug Olympics?
yeah…that was hilarious! the guy rips off his arms deadlifting or something…
hey, i do agre with many of you that said if you’re competing where it says “no steroids” and you use them, it’s cheating.
whoever made the point about the average person who doesn’t work out is never gonna understand steorids is dead-on. [/quote]
I think it was the cocaine olympics
we will probably never see eye to eye on this subject than because i do think that steroids is cheating. i do. regardless of who, what, where, or why. i’m not saying that it’s the worst thing that someone could do or anything like that but it’s still cheating. yah you are probably making better progress that most of the guys in your gym who aren’t using but you are using an illegal substance. plain and simple. you are using something that is not available for everyone to use because everyone is not willing to take the health and legal risks you are. It’s not like they are available at GNC where everyone can get access to them.
let me just ask, so i can understand where you’re coming from, why you feel like you need to use? i’m not trying to attack you or anything i want to keep the discussion civil. help me to understand your perspective.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
CS - do you use protein powder or creatine? Have you ever knowingly driven at a speed greater than the posted limit?
If the answer to both these questions is yes, then you have done something illegal and you have used a suppliment that is not available to everyone, either because of financial or ethical reasons. Combine the two and you have the profile of what you claim is an average steroid user.
Please explain how it is cheating for me, a recreational gym-goer, to use steroids in what is ultimately, a solo sport/lifestyle…
bushboy[/quote]
you can’t say that me using protein and creatine and some people not being able to use/not wanting to use p+c is even close to the same as using steroids. protein and creatine are perfectly legal for everyone to use if they have the means and wish to do so. steroids on the other hand are not. i have the money to buy steroids i just don’t want to because of the legal/health ramifications.
although speeding is illegal and in the end probably kills a lot more people than steroids there are still much much more harsh penalties for steroid use. i’m not disputing that there are much much worse things than steroids that aren’t illegal but that doesn’t change the law. i’m just wondering what makes you, as a recreational lifter or whatever, want to use steriods. i’m not trying to attack your lifestyle and i’m not saying that you are doing anything wrong i’m just curious.
i guess the way that i feel about it is if i used and i looked myself in the mirror than i would know that that isn’t all me. it’s a lot like the bench shirt issue. let me just say first that i’m not trying to start a huge fight. powerlifters are strong with or without a bench shirt and they work hard with or without a bench shirt just like most steroid users do BUT…if you took that bench shirt away from them and made them lift raw would they still get the same weight. no. so how can you say that you can bench X amount of weight when you are using something artificial to help you and if you took it away they wouldn’t get that weight. how can a steroid user say that those gains are all his when he used something illegal to help him and if you took it away he would have never made those gains.
DO NOT GET ME WRONG-powerlfiters and steroid users still have to work hard to get where they are. i’m not trying to say that things just magically come to them. i’m just trying to have a discussion.
This reminds me of the reason I quit the philosophical debating society. I kept losing and I couldn’t figure out why. Then I found out they were all cheating by smoking pot before the debates… fuckers!
[quote]CS wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
CS - do you use protein powder or creatine? Have you ever knowingly driven at a speed greater than the posted limit?
If the answer to both these questions is yes, then you have done something illegal and you have used a suppliment that is not available to everyone, either because of financial or ethical reasons. Combine the two and you have the profile of what you claim is an average steroid user.
Please explain how it is cheating for me, a recreational gym-goer, to use steroids in what is ultimately, a solo sport/lifestyle…
bushboy
you can’t say that me using protein and creatine and some people not being able to use/not wanting to use p+c is even close to the same as using steroids. protein and creatine are perfectly legal for everyone to use if they have the means and wish to do so. steroids on the other hand are not. i have the money to buy steroids i just don’t want to because of the legal/health ramifications.
although speeding is illegal and in the end probably kills a lot more people than steroids there are still much much more harsh penalties for steroid use. i’m not disputing that there are much much worse things than steroids that aren’t illegal but that doesn’t change the law. i’m just wondering what makes you, as a recreational lifter or whatever, want to use steriods. i’m not trying to attack your lifestyle and i’m not saying that you are doing anything wrong i’m just curious.
i guess the way that i feel about it is if i used and i looked myself in the mirror than i would know that that isn’t all me. it’s a lot like the bench shirt issue. let me just say first that i’m not trying to start a huge fight. powerlifters are strong with or without a bench shirt and they work hard with or without a bench shirt just like most steroid users do BUT…if you took that bench shirt away from them and made them lift raw would they still get the same weight. no. so how can you say that you can bench X amount of weight when you are using something artificial to help you and if you took it away they wouldn’t get that weight. how can a steroid user say that those gains are all his when he used something illegal to help him and if you took it away he would have never made those gains.
DO NOT GET ME WRONG-powerlfiters and steroid users still have to work hard to get where they are. i’m not trying to say that things just magically come to them. i’m just trying to have a discussion.
[/quote]
hey CS…
what if someone is getting AAS legally through a doctor…say for instance HRT…and that person is not a competitive athlete…is that person, in your opinion, cheating?