T Nation

This Makes Me a Proud American

David W. McLain
Diplomacy

When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of ‘empire building’ by George Bush. He answered by saying, “Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return.”

It became very quiet in the room.


Then there was a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French and American. During a break one of the French engineers came back into the room saying “Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims. What does he intend to do, bomb them?”

A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly: “Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck… We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?”

Once again, dead silence.


A U.S. Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included Admirals from the U.S., English, Canadian, Australian and French Navies. At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of Officers that included personnel from most of those countries. Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks but a French admiral suddenly complained that, whereas Europeans learn many languages, Americans learn only English.’ He then asked, ‘Why is it that we always have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?’ Without hesitating, the American Admiral replied 'Maybe it’s because the Brits, Canadians, Aussies and Americans arranged it so you wouldn’t have to speak German.

You could have heard a pin drop.

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson

Brings a tear to my eye…thanks Hagar

You’re a proud American because of lies? I find that rather strange.

The US has military bases all over the world. I believe it has a rather big base on Cuba that has been in the news recently.

While the US did indeed sent an aircraft carrier into the region to help the tsunami victims, help flooded in from all over the world. There is no evidence for this conversation.

There’s also no evidence for the conversation at the naval conference. Where was the conference exactly? And when did it take place.

Oh boy, you Yanks are so gullible.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
You’re a proud American because of lies? I find that rather strange.

The US has military bases all over the world. I believe it has a rather big base on Cuba that has been in the news recently.

While the US did indeed sent an aircraft carrier into the region to help the tsunami victims, help flooded in from all over the world. There is no evidence for this conversation.

There’s also no evidence for the conversation at the naval conference. Where was the conference exactly? And when did it take place.

Oh boy, you Yanks are so gullible.[/quote]

And away we go…

You didn’t like the part where Americans made it so you didn’t have to speak German. Admit it, Wreckless, go ahead.

As much as I can see the turths in these passages, they’re still propaganda. Obviously, sending the carriers to help the tsunami victims was an act of altruism. That cannot be compared to Iraq. In Iraq, we are not taking land. No, we’re taking oil and lives. So much better, don’t you think? We’re also giving ourselves a new outlet for businesses, and a war to boost the profits of our defense complex. Not land, but certainly something.

The archbishop made a stupid comment to a former American Sec of State. and Powel responded patriotically, not analytically. Because something is profound and moving does not ensure that that statement is not a lie or half truth.

I don’t think America is as bad as the old time imperialists, but to say we are the altruists of the world fighting for democracy where no one else will and asking for nothing in return is downright ludicrous.

Oh and the last passage made me laugh. He should have just said “Because we’re not directly next to a bunch of nations that speak different languages then us like France and most other European nations are”.

No intelligent American would say something as stupid as what was “reported”.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
As much as I can see the turths in these passages, they’re still propaganda. [/quote]

So what? I’ve read more than my share of Islamic extremist propaganda on these boards.

It’s about time we get to hear some pro-American propaganda.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
You’re a proud American because of lies? I find that rather strange.

The US has military bases all over the world. I believe it has a rather big base on Cuba that has been in the news recently.

While the US did indeed sent an aircraft carrier into the region to help the tsunami victims, help flooded in from all over the world. There is no evidence for this conversation.

There’s also no evidence for the conversation at the naval conference. Where was the conference exactly? And when did it take place.

Oh boy, you Yanks are so gullible.[/quote]

Your right its all lies. I made it up. Soon we will rule the world under a corporate dictatorship and you’ll be enslaved as a janitor for your insolence. Don’t worry you won’t mind after a few years in our reeducation camps.

I’ll be honest. I can’t find any evidence that these conversations ever happened. So yes, until we see a video or interview witnesses there is a possibility that this was really made up. Even then the video could just be actors with surgical alterations. We’ll never know.

LOL!!!

btw Colin Powell is the man! He should be president!

[quote]NeoSpartan wrote:
LOL!!!

btw Colin Powell is the man! He should be president! [/quote]

Mr. Powell did admit making a mistake of epic proportions, and expressed remorse for taking part of the WMD charade.

Contrast with the divinely-inspired people cramped on their position, making up excuses for the occupation as they go along.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

You didn’t like the part where Americans made it so you didn’t have to speak German. Admit it, Wreckless, go ahead.

[/quote]

We don’t know whether Wreckless is a Fleming or a Walloon. For all we know, he speaks Flemish, which is a dialect of Dutch, which is practically German.

So having to speak German probably wouldn’t be such a hardship for him at all.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
You’re a proud American because of lies? I find that rather strange.

The US has military bases all over the world. I believe it has a rather big base on Cuba that has been in the news recently.

While the US did indeed sent an aircraft carrier into the region to help the tsunami victims, help flooded in from all over the world. There is no evidence for this conversation.

There’s also no evidence for the conversation at the naval conference. Where was the conference exactly? And when did it take place.

Oh boy, you Yanks are so gullible.

And away we go…

You didn’t like the part where Americans made it so you didn’t have to speak German. Admit it, Wreckless, go ahead.
[/quote]

Wreckless’ statement appears to be a reference to the invasion of Iraq.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
As much as I can see the turths in these passages, they’re still propaganda. Obviously, sending the carriers to help the tsunami victims was an act of altruism. That cannot be compared to Iraq. In Iraq, we are not taking land. No, we’re taking oil and lives. So much better, don’t you think? We’re also giving ourselves a new outlet for businesses, and a war to boost the profits of our defense complex. Not land, but certainly something.

The archbishop made a stupid comment to a former American Sec of State. and Powel responded patriotically, not analytically. Because something is profound and moving does not ensure that that statement is not a lie or half truth.

I don’t think America is as bad as the old time imperialists, but to say we are the altruists of the world fighting for democracy where no one else will and asking for nothing in return is downright ludicrous. [/quote]

You’re assuming that altruism is good. Check your premises.

Hint: altruism can’t be done. Its a death wish for yourself.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Your anecdotes sound as if they were taken straight from the day-dreams of an impassioned neocon.

I like reading this type of material, though. It always fascinates me to see the neocon obsession with portraying the U.S. military as “the preeminent force for good” in the world.

Basically, what this type of rhetoric does is shift the focus of arguments away from foreign policy (and those who run it), and onto the peons who drive the American war machine. Who would dare question their sacrifice and noble intentions? It’s an effective tactic for stonewalling the opposition.

I always get a kick out of imagining American neocon fathers teaching their sons about the various capabilities of the U.S. military, similar to what was articulated in the article. You know, all that Clancy nonsense. Red-blooded Americans just eat it up.

…as if the American military was the first in history whose primary function did not include death and destruction.

I’ve been around U.S. military people enough to witness this dogma in action. They love filling you in on all the technical details of their service branch, profession, assignment, equipment, etc…These guys epitomize the modern day “American patriot” (of the neocon variety). And they are truly oblivious to the way in which they are perceived by the rest of the world, outside the states.

They just can’t see how people living in foreign countries would be put off by the presence of such advanced military hardware on their soil.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

You’re assuming that altruism is good. Check your premises.

Hint: altruism can’t be done. Its a death wish for yourself.

[/quote]

It’s true. Altruism (the provision of benefits for others at one’s own expense) makes little sense. One example would be buying dinner and a movie ticket for a young woman, and then NOT having sex with her.

Two other, more extreme examples of altruism: Dutch families sheltering Jews from the Gestapo; and firefighters dashing into the smoking, soon-to-collapse tower of the World Trade Center. In both cases, those involved had nothing to gain, and everything to lose.

Positively senseless.

[quote]Chushin wrote:

Democracies like Germany, Korea and Japan continue to support the presence of US forces in their countries. But you know better what’s good for those countries than their elected officials do?[/quote]

The governor of Okinawa might disagree.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Headhunter wrote:

You’re assuming that altruism is good. Check your premises.

Hint: altruism can’t be done. Its a death wish for yourself.

It’s true. Altruism (the provision of benefits for others at one’s own expense) makes little sense. One example would be buying dinner and a movie ticket for a young woman, and then NOT having sex with her.

Two other, more extreme examples of altruism: Dutch families sheltering Jews from the Gestapo; and firefighters dashing into the smoking, soon-to-collapse tower of the World Trade Center. In both cases, those involved had nothing to gain, and everything to lose.

Positively senseless.[/quote]

Are you familiar with the ethics of emergencies? There is difference between the 2 cases. In the first case, what the Dutch did was immoral — risking your own death and your families deaths for strangers is immoral and destructive. Your supreme value must be yourself, or what is it that does the ‘valuing’?

Running into the WTC is quite different. These individuals chose the occupation with the consequences in mind.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Running into the WTC is quite different. These individuals chose the occupation with the consequences in mind. [/quote]

I’m positive there were plenty of volunteers who had no affiliation whatsoever to the firefighters, cops, medics, or anything of the sort.