This is Why I Stand

Of course it is. That’s the point, which you’ve completely missed.

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In case nobody has added this yet: those aren’t the only 2 possibilities. There’s another, with rather good underpinnings empirically speaking–extremely high population density around the major centers of black residence combined with a low average income/socioeconomic status leads to increased crime as a function of increased rate of conflict and scarcity of resources (read: money and education).

Note this has nothing to do with blacks being inherently more violent or some such BS, and it doesn’t necessitate systemic racism being the reason either.

The presence of systemic racism–though arguably a fact of life for the current American experience for POC-- is not required for the very well documented pressures of population density and low income/education attainment to take their toll.

This doesn’t even begin to touch other aspects either.

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It wasn’t meant as an analogy. The idea being put forth in this thread is that taking a knee is a protest against real or perceived social injustice (agreed). It has also been put forth in this thread that this protest is well within a players 1st amendment right to speech/protest (agreed). It has also been put forth in this thread that what the flag means is up for interpretation (sure…).

However, if a player from the south were to protest what he feels is an injustice (his heritage being attacked, statues being taken down, etc…) it would be well within his right to do so as well for the same reasons.

But, I’m fairly certain that wouldn’t jive with ownership or fans that currently support Kaps protest and it would be squashed immediately.

That’s hypocrisy at its worst.

It’s why, for example, I haven’t seen a bunch of tweets or discussion about the church shooting in Tennesse.

It’s why, for example, the Dallas Cowboys weren’t allowed to honor the police because “Everyone has to be uniform with the league and the other 31 teams.” -Jerry Jones

It’s why, in the much larger scheme of things, a Christian baker, for example, is fined $135k for exercising their right to protest what they feel is wrong for their own reasons.

And so on and so forth.

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Correct. In fact, to their credit, NASCAR tries to discourage the displaying of the CBF, and even offers a swap program (give us your CBF, we’ll give you a Stars and Stripes).

It’s not hypocrisy if the NFL writ large agrees with the players with regard to the issue they’re protesting, whereas they didn’t agree with the symbolic implications of the CBF or Nazi salute. And that is clearly the case here.

You expect the NFL to tweet every time someone in the US is shot? That’s a lot of tweeting.

At this point, you have ridden so far off into the distance, you can no longer be seen from the grounds of this discussion.

That is not “clearly the case” here and, regardless, it most certainly is hypocrisy. You don’t get to just pick and choose who gets to exercise their constitutional rights and who doesn’t.

I didn’t specifically mean the NFL, but, again, it just highlights the hypocrisy. If the shooter looked like Dylan Roof and the parishioners had been black how many tweets do you think we’d be inundated with?

Lol, whatever. If you really think this is just about a tweet from the clown in chief I can’t help you.

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This term really needs to stop being misused… biases or stereotype is more accurate.

racism
ˈrāˌsizəm/
noun

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

Doesn’t it seem more likely that the double standard lies in the likely hood that upsetting one group would likely lead to active physical protests, and boycotts while alienating the other group would likely lead to a more gradual drop in viewership or fan base?

One is a more immediate threat and PR problem while the other is a longer term threat that may or may not be fixable. Probably comes down to dollars at the end of the day, if sponsors start pulling I suspect it would change the math some…

Yes, I think that’s part of it. The players and the players union have a significant amount of power here. Long term I think the owners expect this to just blow over. We’ll see.

Indeed, that the point of my initial post. I stand (and so should any decent person) to honor our serving, our dead, our wounded, and those they leave behind. The Orange Won’s bandwagon actions are irrelevant to why I stand.

Surely, even angry liberals support our troops. Or perhaps not.

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I haven’t completely missed anything. The 2 examples are different. I’m sorry you think millions of people are absolutely wrong about a concept that requires introspective thought and you can’t get them to agree with you.

What concept is that?

What the flag and anthem stand for.

In the private-sector workplace? Sure you do.

If the scale of the carnage and the heinousness with which it was carried out was equal to that of the Charleston shooting, I dare say the reaction would have been the same.

Well, there you have. Kaepernick gets to exercise his right to protest because it falls in line with your ideology, but the second it doesn’t, NOPE.

Fantastic…

Ya, sure. :roll_eyes:

That’s true, but many of them were offended. Because death and sacrifice for the country is highly revered by so many in America, I think this protest will test our resolve as a country to protect freedom of speech.

Dude, with all due respect, the ‘right to protest’ (I assume you’re referring to free speech here) means the government can’t abridge your speech. A private employer most certainly can (in the context of work-related behavior, that is).

Well, you might want to re-read this very thread then because that’s exactly what has been argued.

As I’ve said above, people are free to do whatever they wish while the anthem is playing. They are free to believe that the anthem means whatever they think it does. You want to contemplate Michael Brown during the anthem? Knock yourself out.

Being anything other than respectful during this time is slap in the face to people who honor the traditional meaning. This has been explained at length. Unfurling a confederate flag during the anthem would be disrespectful for the exact same reasons that taking a knee is, even though both can have whatever meaning someone says they do. Most people view the anthem and our conduct during it as a symbol to honor our service members, just as most people view the confederate flag as a symbol of slavery and rebellion.

Deciding that either of those mean something different to you is your choice, just as deciding that everyone’s attention should be on you during the national anthem is a choice, whether it is by displaying a confederate flag or by taking a knee. Doing either will make a lot of people consider you to be an asshole, which has very little to do with politics and quite a lot to do with simply respecting the people around you.

I’m having a hard time understanding if you’re just being dense about this or if your biases are really that strong. This wouldn’t be the first time a liberal has defended free speech when it suits their sensibilities but balked when it does not.

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I’ve been here all along, but have no idea what you mean. Can you explain?