'This is What Winning Looks Like' Documentary

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Karado wrote:
“Winning” in Afganstan meant making the country a place where there is no easy, safe, base for OBL to train terrorists for the next attack on the US or the West. Large-scale terrorists training requires a state sponsor (or at least a state shelter).

This has been accomplished, for now"

WHEW…Thank goodness, because there is no where else on Planet Earth our enemies can train like they did
in Afghanistan.
[/quote]

You’re right. We might as well just surrender and not try to contain the terrorists because it’s hard. We should just convert to Islam and cut off our daughters’ clits/vaginal lips as they demand. Also, everyone kill a Jew and a Catholic.

Of course there are other countries that might shelter terrorists, but the list is suprising finite: Iran, Yemen, various lawless areas in Africa.

Each area has challenges for countries that are potential targets as well as challenges for Al-Quada or like-minded groups.

And each area is the subject of intense military pressure/targeting.[/quote]

I’m just curious. The U.S. gives Israel about $3 billion a year in aid, which doesn’t ever have to be paid back. What exactly is it that we’re getting in the form of a return on that investment? Other than propping up the lone legitimate democracy in the region, what tangible return is that $3 billion getting us? At what point does Israel take responsibility for its own security and safety? At what point does Israel become self-reliant?

I know that it is a large reason as to why the U.S. is the intended target of so much terrorist activity. What do you think would happen to the U.S. if we used that $3 billion a year to further fortify our ability to protect ourselves from terrorists here, rather than preemptively take the fight to them halfway around the world? What sort of impact on the “war on terror” would seeking to disengage from the sort of activity on Muslim lands that clearly inflames these terrorists have? Are we really seeking the best avenue to winning what is essentially an unwinnable war?

After all, how do you defeat “terrorism”? It’s a war tactic. Trying to defeat it is like trying to defeat the idea of flanking maneuvers or the concept of air superiority.[/quote]

Do you honestly think Israel isn’t self-reliant? That aid money is to keep Israel buying products to put in the hands of their military, it’s also the only nation to use as a proxy against practically any nation in its surrounding area. A lot of aid money really comes down to getting nations to play ball with America and side with our interests, it also maintains influence.

That depends on what you consider defeat, war isn’t a sporting event. In sporting events a team can legitimately win or lose, armed conflict can last indefinitely. Also, nothing is going to stop terrorist organizations from attacking anyone. Especially not an Islamic terrorist organization. Blaming things on the West and Israel is just an easy way to gain support for their goals, they’d continue to attack regardless. [/quote]

I also don’t understand what you mean by saying that Israel acts as a proxy against other nations in the area. How is it that they act as a proxy? There isn’t a single Israeli soldier fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan. We can’t let them fight there because they would be a complete detriment to all of our efforts at rebuilding those nations. The fact is that we cannot accomplish any of our goals in Iraq or Afghanistan with the help of Israelis. How does that help us out at all?[/quote]

The IDF went into Syria and blew up a nuclear facility, that’s using them as a proxy. It’d be a big fucking problem for America if we did that, particularly discussing that with China and Russia. Same with going into Iran and assassinating somebody, Israel just really doesn’t care at all and says “If you don’t like it do something about it.” while America is saying “Listen, guys. Please stop your nuclear program. OK?” to avoid a war with Iran. They can do things that benefit the United States without the United States having to put its name on it and deal with it.

22

[quote]Mr. Chen wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
“Winning” in Afganstan meant making the country a place where there is no easy, safe, base for OBL to train terrorists for the next attack on the US or the West. Large-scale terrorists training requires a state sponsor (or at least a state shelter).

This has been accomplished, for now. Constant interferance will be necessary, as the disease will pop up from time-to-time.

[/quote]
I don’t think pop up from time to time is correct. The video suggests after we leave, the Taliban will be able to come back and do what they want. The Afghan “police” and the ANA are not up to the task. It seems we have accomplished nothing.[/quote]

The United States can operate on a smaller level in Afghanistan after the withdrawal. That’s where units doing Foreign Internal Defense come into play.

23

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Karado wrote:
“Winning” in Afganstan meant making the country a place where there is no easy, safe, base for OBL to train terrorists for the next attack on the US or the West. Large-scale terrorists training requires a state sponsor (or at least a state shelter).

This has been accomplished, for now"

WHEW…Thank goodness, because there is no where else on Planet Earth our enemies can train like they did
in Afghanistan.
[/quote]

You’re right. We might as well just surrender and not try to contain the terrorists because it’s hard. We should just convert to Islam and cut off our daughters’ clits/vaginal lips as they demand. Also, everyone kill a Jew and a Catholic.

Of course there are other countries that might shelter terrorists, but the list is suprising finite: Iran, Yemen, various lawless areas in Africa.

Each area has challenges for countries that are potential targets as well as challenges for Al-Quada or like-minded groups.

And each area is the subject of intense military pressure/targeting.[/quote]

I’m just curious. The U.S. gives Israel about $3 billion a year in aid, which doesn’t ever have to be paid back. What exactly is it that we’re getting in the form of a return on that investment? Other than propping up the lone legitimate democracy in the region, what tangible return is that $3 billion getting us? At what point does Israel take responsibility for its own security and safety? At what point does Israel become self-reliant?

I know that it is a large reason as to why the U.S. is the intended target of so much terrorist activity. What do you think would happen to the U.S. if we used that $3 billion a year to further fortify our ability to protect ourselves from terrorists here, rather than preemptively take the fight to them halfway around the world? What sort of impact on the “war on terror” would seeking to disengage from the sort of activity on Muslim lands that clearly inflames these terrorists have? Are we really seeking the best avenue to winning what is essentially an unwinnable war?

After all, how do you defeat “terrorism”? It’s a war tactic. Trying to defeat it is like trying to defeat the idea of flanking maneuvers or the concept of air superiority.[/quote]

Do you honestly think Israel isn’t self-reliant? That aid money is to keep Israel buying products to put in the hands of their military, it’s also the only nation to use as a proxy against practically any nation in its surrounding area. A lot of aid money really comes down to getting nations to play ball with America and side with our interests, it also maintains influence.

That depends on what you consider defeat, war isn’t a sporting event. In sporting events a team can legitimately win or lose, armed conflict can last indefinitely. Also, nothing is going to stop terrorist organizations from attacking anyone. Especially not an Islamic terrorist organization. Blaming things on the West and Israel is just an easy way to gain support for their goals, they’d continue to attack regardless. [/quote]

I also don’t understand what you mean by saying that Israel acts as a proxy against other nations in the area. How is it that they act as a proxy? There isn’t a single Israeli soldier fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan. We can’t let them fight there because they would be a complete detriment to all of our efforts at rebuilding those nations. The fact is that we cannot accomplish any of our goals in Iraq or Afghanistan with the help of Israelis. How does that help us out at all?[/quote]

The IDF went into Syria and blew up a nuclear facility, that’s using them as a proxy. It’d be a big fucking problem for America if we did that, particularly discussing that with China and Russia. Same with going into Iran and assassinating somebody, Israel just really doesn’t care at all and says “If you don’t like it do something about it.” while America is saying “Listen, guys. Please stop your nuclear program. OK?” to avoid a war with Iran. They can do things that benefit the United States without the United States having to put its name on it and deal with it.[/quote]

That’s a good point. But still, do we need to fund these actions ourselves? Israel’s economy is booming right now, to the point where there is legitimate reason to question their need for aid from us. Will they continue to take the step that we cannot or are not willing to take if we cease funding them? I think they will.

I’m not sure if Israel really needs U.S. aid to survive in the Middle East anymore. I think they certainly did at one point, but perhaps it’s time for the U.S. to cut the cord. After all, the actions you described are being carried out because they are in Israel’s best interest as well, not just the U.S. They’re doing us a favor, but it’s something that they would do with or without our endorsement. Given that our endorsement seems to be a large part of what enflames anti-American sentiment and motivates terrorists to take action against the U.S., i don’t think it makes any sense to continue to foot the bill for actions on the part of Israel that may benefit us when the fact is that they would perform those same actions regardless of our support.

And if they cannot legitimately defend themselves without our support, then what the fuck are we giving them aid for? What is the point? Don’t you think that after, what, 65 years or so of financial aid, they’d be able to reach the point of self-determination? Where else in life does it make sense to foot the bill for someone’s improvement when they aren’t making any progress toward improvement?

24

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Karado wrote:
“Winning” in Afganstan meant making the country a place where there is no easy, safe, base for OBL to train terrorists for the next attack on the US or the West. Large-scale terrorists training requires a state sponsor (or at least a state shelter).

This has been accomplished, for now"

WHEW…Thank goodness, because there is no where else on Planet Earth our enemies can train like they did
in Afghanistan.
[/quote]

You’re right. We might as well just surrender and not try to contain the terrorists because it’s hard. We should just convert to Islam and cut off our daughters’ clits/vaginal lips as they demand. Also, everyone kill a Jew and a Catholic.

Of course there are other countries that might shelter terrorists, but the list is suprising finite: Iran, Yemen, various lawless areas in Africa.

Each area has challenges for countries that are potential targets as well as challenges for Al-Quada or like-minded groups.

And each area is the subject of intense military pressure/targeting.[/quote]

I’m just curious. The U.S. gives Israel about $3 billion a year in aid, which doesn’t ever have to be paid back. What exactly is it that we’re getting in the form of a return on that investment? Other than propping up the lone legitimate democracy in the region, what tangible return is that $3 billion getting us? At what point does Israel take responsibility for its own security and safety? At what point does Israel become self-reliant?

I know that it is a large reason as to why the U.S. is the intended target of so much terrorist activity. What do you think would happen to the U.S. if we used that $3 billion a year to further fortify our ability to protect ourselves from terrorists here, rather than preemptively take the fight to them halfway around the world? What sort of impact on the “war on terror” would seeking to disengage from the sort of activity on Muslim lands that clearly inflames these terrorists have? Are we really seeking the best avenue to winning what is essentially an unwinnable war?

After all, how do you defeat “terrorism”? It’s a war tactic. Trying to defeat it is like trying to defeat the idea of flanking maneuvers or the concept of air superiority.[/quote]

Do you honestly think Israel isn’t self-reliant? That aid money is to keep Israel buying products to put in the hands of their military, it’s also the only nation to use as a proxy against practically any nation in its surrounding area. A lot of aid money really comes down to getting nations to play ball with America and side with our interests, it also maintains influence.

That depends on what you consider defeat, war isn’t a sporting event. In sporting events a team can legitimately win or lose, armed conflict can last indefinitely. Also, nothing is going to stop terrorist organizations from attacking anyone. Especially not an Islamic terrorist organization. Blaming things on the West and Israel is just an easy way to gain support for their goals, they’d continue to attack regardless. [/quote]

I also don’t understand what you mean by saying that Israel acts as a proxy against other nations in the area. How is it that they act as a proxy? There isn’t a single Israeli soldier fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan. We can’t let them fight there because they would be a complete detriment to all of our efforts at rebuilding those nations. The fact is that we cannot accomplish any of our goals in Iraq or Afghanistan with the help of Israelis. How does that help us out at all?[/quote]

The IDF went into Syria and blew up a nuclear facility, that’s using them as a proxy. It’d be a big fucking problem for America if we did that, particularly discussing that with China and Russia. Same with going into Iran and assassinating somebody, Israel just really doesn’t care at all and says “If you don’t like it do something about it.” while America is saying “Listen, guys. Please stop your nuclear program. OK?” to avoid a war with Iran. They can do things that benefit the United States without the United States having to put its name on it and deal with it.[/quote]

That’s a good point. But still, do we need to fund these actions ourselves? Israel’s economy is booming right now, to the point where there is legitimate reason to question their need for aid from us. Will they continue to take the step that we cannot or are not willing to take if we cease funding them? I think they will.

I’m not sure if Israel really needs U.S. aid to survive in the Middle East anymore. I think they certainly did at one point, but perhaps it’s time for the U.S. to cut the cord. After all, the actions you described are being carried out because they are in Israel’s best interest as well, not just the U.S. They’re doing us a favor, but it’s something that they would do with or without our endorsement. Given that our endorsement seems to be a large part of what enflames anti-American sentiment and motivates terrorists to take action against the U.S., i don’t think it makes any sense to continue to foot the bill for actions on the part of Israel that may benefit us when the fact is that they would perform those same actions regardless of our support.

And if they cannot legitimately defend themselves without our support, then what the fuck are we giving them aid for? What is the point? Don’t you think that after, what, 65 years or so of financial aid, they’d be able to reach the point of self-determination? Where else in life does it make sense to foot the bill for someone’s improvement when they aren’t making any progress toward improvement?[/quote]

Of course they’ll, Israel doesn’t play around at all. But let’s say America says to Israel “Hey, we need you guys to do… In Iran for us.”, Israel will say “We’ll be taking the heat for it whether or not it works out and if we’re doing… We think you should support us on X issue and give us Y so our military can be better equipped”. Not only that but getting that money ensures they buy American products rather than giving us the finger altogether and developing their own. A worst case scenario would be another nation, let’s say Russia, telling surrounding nations to give Israel a break and start writing checks to Israel to play ball with them. As long as things are good on Israel’s end they could let things that hurt America’s interest go on.

Personally, I think America needs to start closing the checkbook to other nations. Namely Pakistan. They never keep up with things on their end, they can’t support us publicly and all they’ve done for America is let’s take care of their insurgent problem. They can’t deal with the Taliban or AQ at all. This nation should tell them it’s time to put up or shut up, work on relations with America and live up to your end of the bargain. That or India gets to do some cool training exercises with us and an aid package they could only dream of having.

25

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Karado wrote:
“Winning” in Afganstan meant making the country a place where there is no easy, safe, base for OBL to train terrorists for the next attack on the US or the West. Large-scale terrorists training requires a state sponsor (or at least a state shelter).

This has been accomplished, for now"

WHEW…Thank goodness, because there is no where else on Planet Earth our enemies can train like they did
in Afghanistan.
[/quote]

You’re right. We might as well just surrender and not try to contain the terrorists because it’s hard. We should just convert to Islam and cut off our daughters’ clits/vaginal lips as they demand. Also, everyone kill a Jew and a Catholic.

Of course there are other countries that might shelter terrorists, but the list is suprising finite: Iran, Yemen, various lawless areas in Africa.

Each area has challenges for countries that are potential targets as well as challenges for Al-Quada or like-minded groups.

And each area is the subject of intense military pressure/targeting.[/quote]

I’m just curious. The U.S. gives Israel about $3 billion a year in aid, which doesn’t ever have to be paid back. What exactly is it that we’re getting in the form of a return on that investment? Other than propping up the lone legitimate democracy in the region, what tangible return is that $3 billion getting us? At what point does Israel take responsibility for its own security and safety? At what point does Israel become self-reliant?

I know that it is a large reason as to why the U.S. is the intended target of so much terrorist activity. What do you think would happen to the U.S. if we used that $3 billion a year to further fortify our ability to protect ourselves from terrorists here, rather than preemptively take the fight to them halfway around the world? What sort of impact on the “war on terror” would seeking to disengage from the sort of activity on Muslim lands that clearly inflames these terrorists have? Are we really seeking the best avenue to winning what is essentially an unwinnable war?

After all, how do you defeat “terrorism”? It’s a war tactic. Trying to defeat it is like trying to defeat the idea of flanking maneuvers or the concept of air superiority.[/quote]

Do you honestly think Israel isn’t self-reliant? That aid money is to keep Israel buying products to put in the hands of their military, it’s also the only nation to use as a proxy against practically any nation in its surrounding area. A lot of aid money really comes down to getting nations to play ball with America and side with our interests, it also maintains influence.

That depends on what you consider defeat, war isn’t a sporting event. In sporting events a team can legitimately win or lose, armed conflict can last indefinitely. Also, nothing is going to stop terrorist organizations from attacking anyone. Especially not an Islamic terrorist organization. Blaming things on the West and Israel is just an easy way to gain support for their goals, they’d continue to attack regardless. [/quote]

I also don’t understand what you mean by saying that Israel acts as a proxy against other nations in the area. How is it that they act as a proxy? There isn’t a single Israeli soldier fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan. We can’t let them fight there because they would be a complete detriment to all of our efforts at rebuilding those nations. The fact is that we cannot accomplish any of our goals in Iraq or Afghanistan with the help of Israelis. How does that help us out at all?[/quote]

The IDF went into Syria and blew up a nuclear facility, that’s using them as a proxy. It’d be a big fucking problem for America if we did that, particularly discussing that with China and Russia. Same with going into Iran and assassinating somebody, Israel just really doesn’t care at all and says “If you don’t like it do something about it.” while America is saying “Listen, guys. Please stop your nuclear program. OK?” to avoid a war with Iran. They can do things that benefit the United States without the United States having to put its name on it and deal with it.[/quote]

That’s a good point. But still, do we need to fund these actions ourselves? Israel’s economy is booming right now, to the point where there is legitimate reason to question their need for aid from us. Will they continue to take the step that we cannot or are not willing to take if we cease funding them? I think they will.

I’m not sure if Israel really needs U.S. aid to survive in the Middle East anymore. I think they certainly did at one point, but perhaps it’s time for the U.S. to cut the cord. After all, the actions you described are being carried out because they are in Israel’s best interest as well, not just the U.S. They’re doing us a favor, but it’s something that they would do with or without our endorsement. Given that our endorsement seems to be a large part of what enflames anti-American sentiment and motivates terrorists to take action against the U.S., i don’t think it makes any sense to continue to foot the bill for actions on the part of Israel that may benefit us when the fact is that they would perform those same actions regardless of our support.

And if they cannot legitimately defend themselves without our support, then what the fuck are we giving them aid for? What is the point? Don’t you think that after, what, 65 years or so of financial aid, they’d be able to reach the point of self-determination? Where else in life does it make sense to foot the bill for someone’s improvement when they aren’t making any progress toward improvement?[/quote]

Of course they’ll, Israel doesn’t play around at all. But let’s say America says to Israel “Hey, we need you guys to do… In Iran for us.”, Israel will say “We’ll be taking the heat for it whether or not it works out and if we’re doing… We think you should support us on X issue and give us Y so our military can be better equipped”. Not only that but getting that money ensures they buy American products rather than giving us the finger altogether and developing their own. A worst case scenario would be another nation, let’s say Russia, telling surrounding nations to give Israel a break and start writing checks to Israel to play ball with them. As long as things are good on Israel’s end they could let things that hurt America’s interest go on.

Personally, I think America needs to start closing the checkbook to other nations. Namely Pakistan. They never keep up with things on their end, they can’t support us publicly and all they’ve done for America is let’s take care of their insurgent problem. They can’t deal with the Taliban or AQ at all. This nation should tell them it’s time to put up or shut up, work on relations with America and live up to your end of the bargain. That or India gets to do some cool training exercises with us and an aid package they could only dream of having.[/quote]

I get what you’re saying, BUT, we don’t need Israel to spend money on our products to thrive. It’s a tiny country with a tiny population. If we remove the $3 billion in aid from them, and then they turn around and stop buying everything from us, I doubt we’ll even notice it in terms of economic health. They simply don’t make any sort of tangible difference to our economy as a whole.

But they sure as shit do make a difference in terms of our foreign policy. I don’t think it’s that smart to prop up the one country in the Middle East that everyone hates, regardless of how misguided that hate is. I don’t think we should denounce Israel by any means. I simply think that it might behoove the U.S. to say to them that they need to fight their own fights on their own, and we’ll fight ours on our own. It’s not going to reverse the targeting of terrorist activity at the U.S., but you know what? It can’t hurt things either, and I think at this point we may as well take whatever gamble that represents and find out what would happen.

Israel simply does not represent a smart investment anymore, as far as I’m concerned.

26

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Karado wrote:
“Winning” in Afganstan meant making the country a place where there is no easy, safe, base for OBL to train terrorists for the next attack on the US or the West. Large-scale terrorists training requires a state sponsor (or at least a state shelter).

This has been accomplished, for now"

WHEW…Thank goodness, because there is no where else on Planet Earth our enemies can train like they did
in Afghanistan.
[/quote]

You’re right. We might as well just surrender and not try to contain the terrorists because it’s hard. We should just convert to Islam and cut off our daughters’ clits/vaginal lips as they demand. Also, everyone kill a Jew and a Catholic.

Of course there are other countries that might shelter terrorists, but the list is suprising finite: Iran, Yemen, various lawless areas in Africa.

Each area has challenges for countries that are potential targets as well as challenges for Al-Quada or like-minded groups.

And each area is the subject of intense military pressure/targeting.[/quote]

I’m just curious. The U.S. gives Israel about $3 billion a year in aid, which doesn’t ever have to be paid back. What exactly is it that we’re getting in the form of a return on that investment? Other than propping up the lone legitimate democracy in the region, what tangible return is that $3 billion getting us? At what point does Israel take responsibility for its own security and safety? At what point does Israel become self-reliant?

I know that it is a large reason as to why the U.S. is the intended target of so much terrorist activity. What do you think would happen to the U.S. if we used that $3 billion a year to further fortify our ability to protect ourselves from terrorists here, rather than preemptively take the fight to them halfway around the world? What sort of impact on the “war on terror” would seeking to disengage from the sort of activity on Muslim lands that clearly inflames these terrorists have? Are we really seeking the best avenue to winning what is essentially an unwinnable war?

After all, how do you defeat “terrorism”? It’s a war tactic. Trying to defeat it is like trying to defeat the idea of flanking maneuvers or the concept of air superiority.[/quote]

I am not a big foreign aid fan AT ALL…but if you tally the money we have given to Egypt, Syria, Pakistan and all the other handouts, the money we give to Israel is a pittance.

27

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
I am not a big foreign aid fan AT ALL…but if you tally the money we have given to Egypt, Syria, Pakistan and all the other handouts, the money we give to Israel is a pittance.[/quote]

Israel is the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid at $3,000 million. Afghanistan received $2,327 million, and Pakistan $2,102 million. The money in Israel was earmarked for Foreign Military Financing.

Source: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R42621.pdf

james

28

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Karado wrote:
“Winning” in Afganstan meant making the country a place where there is no easy, safe, base for OBL to train terrorists for the next attack on the US or the West. Large-scale terrorists training requires a state sponsor (or at least a state shelter).

This has been accomplished, for now"

WHEW…Thank goodness, because there is no where else on Planet Earth our enemies can train like they did
in Afghanistan.
[/quote]

You’re right. We might as well just surrender and not try to contain the terrorists because it’s hard. We should just convert to Islam and cut off our daughters’ clits/vaginal lips as they demand. Also, everyone kill a Jew and a Catholic.

Of course there are other countries that might shelter terrorists, but the list is suprising finite: Iran, Yemen, various lawless areas in Africa.

Each area has challenges for countries that are potential targets as well as challenges for Al-Quada or like-minded groups.

And each area is the subject of intense military pressure/targeting.[/quote]

I’m just curious. The U.S. gives Israel about $3 billion a year in aid, which doesn’t ever have to be paid back. What exactly is it that we’re getting in the form of a return on that investment? Other than propping up the lone legitimate democracy in the region, what tangible return is that $3 billion getting us? At what point does Israel take responsibility for its own security and safety? At what point does Israel become self-reliant?

I know that it is a large reason as to why the U.S. is the intended target of so much terrorist activity. What do you think would happen to the U.S. if we used that $3 billion a year to further fortify our ability to protect ourselves from terrorists here, rather than preemptively take the fight to them halfway around the world? What sort of impact on the “war on terror” would seeking to disengage from the sort of activity on Muslim lands that clearly inflames these terrorists have? Are we really seeking the best avenue to winning what is essentially an unwinnable war?

After all, how do you defeat “terrorism”? It’s a war tactic. Trying to defeat it is like trying to defeat the idea of flanking maneuvers or the concept of air superiority.[/quote]

I am not a big foreign aid fan AT ALL…but if you tally the money we have given to Egypt, Syria, Pakistan and all the other handouts, the money we give to Israel is a pittance.[/quote]

Sure. But take each of those countries individually and we still give more to Israel than any other country on that list. And I do believe that Israel is the smallest country, population-wise. I don’t know. Syria might be right there with them as well, I suppose.

29

[quote]b89 wrote:
The American public doesn’t have the stomach to win wars and our politicians don’t have the guts to put the country ahead of their career. Winning a war to politicians in this era is some bullshit withdrawal and racking up support for your party with little victories.[/quote]

I think that’s unfair in many ways. Sure, the American public is against carpet bombing cities like we did in WWII but I would argue that’s a good thing. We also need to remember that the wars that we fight now aren’t like WWII where everyone wore a uniform and we simply declared war against an entire country.

Since Vietnam we’ve been fighting small groups within a country with the general goal of not destroying the country we are in. In WWII (and previous wars) we really didn’t care and the goal was to just race to the capital. That’s not the case now. We won the initial invasion into Iraq quite handily but the subsequent occupation was tougher because of all of the splinter groups. So we are trying to rebuild a country while simultaneously defeating an army that wears no uniform. Imagine if that was the scenario in Japan or Germany after WWII and how tough our occupation there would have been.

It’s not as simple as just throwing troops or bombs at the problem and hoping it goes away.

james

30

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Sure. But take each of those countries individually and we still give more to Israel than any other country on that list. And I do believe that Israel is the smallest country, population-wise. I don’t know. Syria might be right there with them as well, I suppose.[/quote]

We are traditionally a Judeo-Christian Nation. We have ties to the Jewish People. We helped found their country in 1942 or 1945 (I am doing this off the top of my head, so I could be wrong). If the US pulls its aid to Israel then that country will be over run. With that said, you know I believe in the Bible. It is only a matter of time when the whole world will turn against Israel. The US and UK are the last ones on their side.

31

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Sure. But take each of those countries individually and we still give more to Israel than any other country on that list. And I do believe that Israel is the smallest country, population-wise. I don’t know. Syria might be right there with them as well, I suppose.[/quote]

We are traditionally a Judeo-Christian Nation. We have ties to the Jewish People. We helped found their country in 1942 or 1945 (I am doing this off the top of my head, so I could be wrong). If the US pulls its aid to Israel then that country will be over run. With that said, you know I believe in the Bible. It is only a matter of time when the whole world will turn against Israel. The US and UK are the last ones on their side.[/quote]

Are we really a Judeo-Christian nation anymore? What part of Judeo-Christian morality involves killing people and having an utter lack of humility when it comes to our foreign policy? I think it’s pretty silly to base even one iota of our foreign policy on some connection we have with another country based on what a book written several hundred years after the fact says. I’m not an anti-Bible atheist by any means, but I think if we were really, truly to follow the basic concepts laid out in it I don’t think we would be using it to justify our foreign policy, especially not in military strategy terms, like what we are partially discussing here.

32

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Sure. But take each of those countries individually and we still give more to Israel than any other country on that list. And I do believe that Israel is the smallest country, population-wise. I don’t know. Syria might be right there with them as well, I suppose.[/quote]

We are traditionally a Judeo-Christian Nation. We have ties to the Jewish People. We helped found their country in 1942 or 1945 (I am doing this off the top of my head, so I could be wrong). If the US pulls its aid to Israel then that country will be over run. With that said, you know I believe in the Bible. It is only a matter of time when the whole world will turn against Israel. The US and UK are the last ones on their side.[/quote]

And you know what? I think to sit here and say that Israel needs our money to survive so we should give it to them is completely hypocritical BULLSHIT. Not hypocritical specifically on your part since I don’t remember where you stand on entitlement programs and that sort of thing. But really, how often do you hear conservatives tout the importance of supporting Israel? All the time. I have heard Jewbacca totally denigrate the concept of using taxes to pay for welfare programs all the time.

Well, what the FUCK is giving $3 billion in aid each year to a country like Israel? And by “a country like Israel”, I mean a country that apparently cannot survive without our support. The same argument that I hear conservatives make regarding the wasteful nature of welfare programs goes right the fuck out of the window when it comes to Israel. The U.S. has been footing Israel’s bill since 19fucking48, for Christ’s sake. When the hell are they going to not need the cash anymore? Do they enjoy being dependent on the kindness of strangers? Do they get off on our charity? What the hell is going on here? I don’t believe for one second that Israel will cease to exist the minute we cut them off. They’ve got an absolutely top-notch air force and quite frankly, the rest of the countries over there are so fucking backwards they wouldn’t be able to pull it together enough to mount any sort of serious threat against them.

I know the Six-Day War was decades ago now, but take a look at that scenario. Egypt could barely get anyone else on the same page when it came to taking out their mortal enemy in Israel, and even when they finally got ready to put the big attack on, Israel swooped in and pretty much destroyed Egypt’s entire air force in about 30 minutes. Shit, who is really going to threaten their existence over there, other than Iran, who, as far as anyone can tell, isn’t even capable of bombing them with anything nuclear anyways? Syria? Lebanon? Qatar? I laugh. If push really came to shove, Israel could wipe every one of those countries right off the map in no time.

33

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Sure. But take each of those countries individually and we still give more to Israel than any other country on that list. And I do believe that Israel is the smallest country, population-wise. I don’t know. Syria might be right there with them as well, I suppose.[/quote]

We are traditionally a Judeo-Christian Nation. We have ties to the Jewish People. We helped found their country in 1942 or 1945 (I am doing this off the top of my head, so I could be wrong). If the US pulls its aid to Israel then that country will be over run. With that said, you know I believe in the Bible. It is only a matter of time when the whole world will turn against Israel. The US and UK are the last ones on their side.[/quote]

And you know what? I think to sit here and say that Israel needs our money to survive so we should give it to them is completely hypocritical BULLSHIT. Not hypocritical specifically on your part since I don’t remember where you stand on entitlement programs and that sort of thing. But really, how often do you hear conservatives tout the importance of supporting Israel? All the time. I have heard Jewbacca totally denigrate the concept of using taxes to pay for welfare programs all the time.

Well, what the FUCK is giving $3 billion in aid each year to a country like Israel? And by “a country like Israel”, I mean a country that apparently cannot survive without our support. The same argument that I hear conservatives make regarding the wasteful nature of welfare programs goes right the fuck out of the window when it comes to Israel. The U.S. has been footing Israel’s bill since 19fucking48, for Christ’s sake. When the hell are they going to not need the cash anymore? Do they enjoy being dependent on the kindness of strangers? Do they get off on our charity? What the hell is going on here? I don’t believe for one second that Israel will cease to exist the minute we cut them off. They’ve got an absolutely top-notch air force and quite frankly, the rest of the countries over there are so fucking backwards they wouldn’t be able to pull it together enough to mount any sort of serious threat against them.

I know the Six-Day War was decades ago now, but take a look at that scenario. Egypt could barely get anyone else on the same page when it came to taking out their mortal enemy in Israel, and even when they finally got ready to put the big attack on, Israel swooped in and pretty much destroyed Egypt’s entire air force in about 30 minutes. Shit, who is really going to threaten their existence over there, other than Iran, who, as far as anyone can tell, isn’t even capable of bombing them with anything nuclear anyways? Syria? Lebanon? Qatar? I laugh. If push really came to shove, Israel could wipe every one of those countries right off the map in no time. [/quote]

So we give the Israelis 3 billion and they turn around and buy weapons from our manufacturers.

Is that not just as good as a stimulus?

34

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Sure. But take each of those countries individually and we still give more to Israel than any other country on that list. And I do believe that Israel is the smallest country, population-wise. I don’t know. Syria might be right there with them as well, I suppose.[/quote]

We are traditionally a Judeo-Christian Nation. We have ties to the Jewish People. We helped found their country in 1942 or 1945 (I am doing this off the top of my head, so I could be wrong). If the US pulls its aid to Israel then that country will be over run. With that said, you know I believe in the Bible. It is only a matter of time when the whole world will turn against Israel. The US and UK are the last ones on their side.[/quote]

And you know what? I think to sit here and say that Israel needs our money to survive so we should give it to them is completely hypocritical BULLSHIT. Not hypocritical specifically on your part since I don’t remember where you stand on entitlement programs and that sort of thing. But really, how often do you hear conservatives tout the importance of supporting Israel? All the time. I have heard Jewbacca totally denigrate the concept of using taxes to pay for welfare programs all the time.

Well, what the FUCK is giving $3 billion in aid each year to a country like Israel? And by “a country like Israel”, I mean a country that apparently cannot survive without our support. The same argument that I hear conservatives make regarding the wasteful nature of welfare programs goes right the fuck out of the window when it comes to Israel. The U.S. has been footing Israel’s bill since 19fucking48, for Christ’s sake. When the hell are they going to not need the cash anymore? Do they enjoy being dependent on the kindness of strangers? Do they get off on our charity? What the hell is going on here? I don’t believe for one second that Israel will cease to exist the minute we cut them off. They’ve got an absolutely top-notch air force and quite frankly, the rest of the countries over there are so fucking backwards they wouldn’t be able to pull it together enough to mount any sort of serious threat against them.

I know the Six-Day War was decades ago now, but take a look at that scenario. Egypt could barely get anyone else on the same page when it came to taking out their mortal enemy in Israel, and even when they finally got ready to put the big attack on, Israel swooped in and pretty much destroyed Egypt’s entire air force in about 30 minutes. Shit, who is really going to threaten their existence over there, other than Iran, who, as far as anyone can tell, isn’t even capable of bombing them with anything nuclear anyways? Syria? Lebanon? Qatar? I laugh. If push really came to shove, Israel could wipe every one of those countries right off the map in no time. [/quote]

So we give the Israelis 3 billion and they turn around and buy weapons from our manufacturers.

Is that not just as good as a stimulus?[/quote]

Gee, I don’t know Utah. Let’s say I sell black tar heroin and you’re completely enveloped in the grip of a serious smack addiction. I take some of the profits I make from selling heroin to everybody on your block and I give you that money, interest-free with no expectation of it ever being paid back, and you give it right back to me in exchange for some heroin. Is that a stimulus package? Of course not.

And really, I think you don’t realize what a drop in the bucket that $3 billion is. The U.S. exports more than $66 billion in arms each year. We aren’t going to miss that $3 billion, not when we could just spread it around to countries like Saudi Arabia, Oman and the UAE, who are all buying much more weaponry from us than ever before in light of Iran’s actions.

35

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Sure. But take each of those countries individually and we still give more to Israel than any other country on that list. And I do believe that Israel is the smallest country, population-wise. I don’t know. Syria might be right there with them as well, I suppose.[/quote]

We are traditionally a Judeo-Christian Nation. We have ties to the Jewish People. We helped found their country in 1942 or 1945 (I am doing this off the top of my head, so I could be wrong). If the US pulls its aid to Israel then that country will be over run. With that said, you know I believe in the Bible. It is only a matter of time when the whole world will turn against Israel. The US and UK are the last ones on their side.[/quote]

And you know what? I think to sit here and say that Israel needs our money to survive so we should give it to them is completely hypocritical BULLSHIT. Not hypocritical specifically on your part since I don’t remember where you stand on entitlement programs and that sort of thing. But really, how often do you hear conservatives tout the importance of supporting Israel? All the time. I have heard Jewbacca totally denigrate the concept of using taxes to pay for welfare programs all the time.

Well, what the FUCK is giving $3 billion in aid each year to a country like Israel? And by “a country like Israel”, I mean a country that apparently cannot survive without our support. The same argument that I hear conservatives make regarding the wasteful nature of welfare programs goes right the fuck out of the window when it comes to Israel. The U.S. has been footing Israel’s bill since 19fucking48, for Christ’s sake. When the hell are they going to not need the cash anymore? Do they enjoy being dependent on the kindness of strangers? Do they get off on our charity? What the hell is going on here? I don’t believe for one second that Israel will cease to exist the minute we cut them off. They’ve got an absolutely top-notch air force and quite frankly, the rest of the countries over there are so fucking backwards they wouldn’t be able to pull it together enough to mount any sort of serious threat against them.

I know the Six-Day War was decades ago now, but take a look at that scenario. Egypt could barely get anyone else on the same page when it came to taking out their mortal enemy in Israel, and even when they finally got ready to put the big attack on, Israel swooped in and pretty much destroyed Egypt’s entire air force in about 30 minutes. Shit, who is really going to threaten their existence over there, other than Iran, who, as far as anyone can tell, isn’t even capable of bombing them with anything nuclear anyways? Syria? Lebanon? Qatar? I laugh. If push really came to shove, Israel could wipe every one of those countries right off the map in no time. [/quote]

So we give the Israelis 3 billion and they turn around and buy weapons from our manufacturers.

Is that not just as good as a stimulus?[/quote]

Gee, I don’t know Utah. Let’s say I sell black tar heroin and you’re completely enveloped in the grip of a serious smack addiction. I take some of the profits I make from selling heroin to everybody on your block and I give you that money, interest-free with no expectation of it ever being paid back, and you give it right back to me in exchange for some heroin. Is that a stimulus package? Of course not.

And really, I think you don’t realize what a drop in the bucket that $3 billion is. The U.S. exports more than $66 billion in arms each year. We aren’t going to miss that $3 billion, not when we could just spread it around to countries like Saudi Arabia, Oman and the UAE, who are all buying much more weaponry from us than ever before in light of Iran’s actions.

[/quote]

Well I see you have fully enveloped the PWI snark face, congrats on that.

As for your actual point, if it’s a drop in the bucket…why did you write several of your gigantic blocks of text about it?

36

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Sure. But take each of those countries individually and we still give more to Israel than any other country on that list. And I do believe that Israel is the smallest country, population-wise. I don’t know. Syria might be right there with them as well, I suppose.[/quote]

We are traditionally a Judeo-Christian Nation. We have ties to the Jewish People. We helped found their country in 1942 or 1945 (I am doing this off the top of my head, so I could be wrong). If the US pulls its aid to Israel then that country will be over run. With that said, you know I believe in the Bible. It is only a matter of time when the whole world will turn against Israel. The US and UK are the last ones on their side.[/quote]

And you know what? I think to sit here and say that Israel needs our money to survive so we should give it to them is completely hypocritical BULLSHIT. Not hypocritical specifically on your part since I don’t remember where you stand on entitlement programs and that sort of thing. But really, how often do you hear conservatives tout the importance of supporting Israel? All the time. I have heard Jewbacca totally denigrate the concept of using taxes to pay for welfare programs all the time.

Well, what the FUCK is giving $3 billion in aid each year to a country like Israel? And by “a country like Israel”, I mean a country that apparently cannot survive without our support. The same argument that I hear conservatives make regarding the wasteful nature of welfare programs goes right the fuck out of the window when it comes to Israel. The U.S. has been footing Israel’s bill since 19fucking48, for Christ’s sake. When the hell are they going to not need the cash anymore? Do they enjoy being dependent on the kindness of strangers? Do they get off on our charity? What the hell is going on here? I don’t believe for one second that Israel will cease to exist the minute we cut them off. They’ve got an absolutely top-notch air force and quite frankly, the rest of the countries over there are so fucking backwards they wouldn’t be able to pull it together enough to mount any sort of serious threat against them.

I know the Six-Day War was decades ago now, but take a look at that scenario. Egypt could barely get anyone else on the same page when it came to taking out their mortal enemy in Israel, and even when they finally got ready to put the big attack on, Israel swooped in and pretty much destroyed Egypt’s entire air force in about 30 minutes. Shit, who is really going to threaten their existence over there, other than Iran, who, as far as anyone can tell, isn’t even capable of bombing them with anything nuclear anyways? Syria? Lebanon? Qatar? I laugh. If push really came to shove, Israel could wipe every one of those countries right off the map in no time. [/quote]

So we give the Israelis 3 billion and they turn around and buy weapons from our manufacturers.

Is that not just as good as a stimulus?[/quote]

Gee, I don’t know Utah. Let’s say I sell black tar heroin and you’re completely enveloped in the grip of a serious smack addiction. I take some of the profits I make from selling heroin to everybody on your block and I give you that money, interest-free with no expectation of it ever being paid back, and you give it right back to me in exchange for some heroin. Is that a stimulus package? Of course not.

And really, I think you don’t realize what a drop in the bucket that $3 billion is. The U.S. exports more than $66 billion in arms each year. We aren’t going to miss that $3 billion, not when we could just spread it around to countries like Saudi Arabia, Oman and the UAE, who are all buying much more weaponry from us than ever before in light of Iran’s actions.

[/quote]

Well I see you have fully enveloped the PWI snark face, congrats on that.

As for your actual point, if it’s a drop in the bucket…why did you write several of your gigantic blocks of text about it?[/quote]

Because it’s more than just a monetary investment. There are repercussions for our blank-check policy toward Israel that go way beyond simple dollars and cents.

37

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Sure. But take each of those countries individually and we still give more to Israel than any other country on that list. And I do believe that Israel is the smallest country, population-wise. I don’t know. Syria might be right there with them as well, I suppose.[/quote]

We are traditionally a Judeo-Christian Nation. We have ties to the Jewish People. We helped found their country in 1942 or 1945 (I am doing this off the top of my head, so I could be wrong). If the US pulls its aid to Israel then that country will be over run. With that said, you know I believe in the Bible. It is only a matter of time when the whole world will turn against Israel. The US and UK are the last ones on their side.[/quote]

And you know what? I think to sit here and say that Israel needs our money to survive so we should give it to them is completely hypocritical BULLSHIT. Not hypocritical specifically on your part since I don’t remember where you stand on entitlement programs and that sort of thing. But really, how often do you hear conservatives tout the importance of supporting Israel? All the time. I have heard Jewbacca totally denigrate the concept of using taxes to pay for welfare programs all the time.

Well, what the FUCK is giving $3 billion in aid each year to a country like Israel? And by “a country like Israel”, I mean a country that apparently cannot survive without our support. The same argument that I hear conservatives make regarding the wasteful nature of welfare programs goes right the fuck out of the window when it comes to Israel. The U.S. has been footing Israel’s bill since 19fucking48, for Christ’s sake. When the hell are they going to not need the cash anymore? Do they enjoy being dependent on the kindness of strangers? Do they get off on our charity? What the hell is going on here? I don’t believe for one second that Israel will cease to exist the minute we cut them off. They’ve got an absolutely top-notch air force and quite frankly, the rest of the countries over there are so fucking backwards they wouldn’t be able to pull it together enough to mount any sort of serious threat against them.

I know the Six-Day War was decades ago now, but take a look at that scenario. Egypt could barely get anyone else on the same page when it came to taking out their mortal enemy in Israel, and even when they finally got ready to put the big attack on, Israel swooped in and pretty much destroyed Egypt’s entire air force in about 30 minutes. Shit, who is really going to threaten their existence over there, other than Iran, who, as far as anyone can tell, isn’t even capable of bombing them with anything nuclear anyways? Syria? Lebanon? Qatar? I laugh. If push really came to shove, Israel could wipe every one of those countries right off the map in no time. [/quote]

So we give the Israelis 3 billion and they turn around and buy weapons from our manufacturers.

Is that not just as good as a stimulus?[/quote]

Gee, I don’t know Utah. Let’s say I sell black tar heroin and you’re completely enveloped in the grip of a serious smack addiction. I take some of the profits I make from selling heroin to everybody on your block and I give you that money, interest-free with no expectation of it ever being paid back, and you give it right back to me in exchange for some heroin. Is that a stimulus package? Of course not.

And really, I think you don’t realize what a drop in the bucket that $3 billion is. The U.S. exports more than $66 billion in arms each year. We aren’t going to miss that $3 billion, not when we could just spread it around to countries like Saudi Arabia, Oman and the UAE, who are all buying much more weaponry from us than ever before in light of Iran’s actions.

[/quote]

Well I see you have fully enveloped the PWI snark face, congrats on that.

As for your actual point, if it’s a drop in the bucket…why did you write several of your gigantic blocks of text about it?[/quote]

Because it’s more than just a monetary investment. There are repercussions for our blank-check policy toward Israel that go way beyond simple dollars and cents.[/quote]

Fair enough.

38

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Sure. But take each of those countries individually and we still give more to Israel than any other country on that list. And I do believe that Israel is the smallest country, population-wise. I don’t know. Syria might be right there with them as well, I suppose.[/quote]

We are traditionally a Judeo-Christian Nation. We have ties to the Jewish People. We helped found their country in 1942 or 1945 (I am doing this off the top of my head, so I could be wrong). If the US pulls its aid to Israel then that country will be over run. With that said, you know I believe in the Bible. It is only a matter of time when the whole world will turn against Israel. The US and UK are the last ones on their side.[/quote]

And you know what? I think to sit here and say that Israel needs our money to survive so we should give it to them is completely hypocritical BULLSHIT. Not hypocritical specifically on your part since I don’t remember where you stand on entitlement programs and that sort of thing. But really, how often do you hear conservatives tout the importance of supporting Israel? All the time. I have heard Jewbacca totally denigrate the concept of using taxes to pay for welfare programs all the time.

Well, what the FUCK is giving $3 billion in aid each year to a country like Israel? And by “a country like Israel”, I mean a country that apparently cannot survive without our support. The same argument that I hear conservatives make regarding the wasteful nature of welfare programs goes right the fuck out of the window when it comes to Israel. The U.S. has been footing Israel’s bill since 19fucking48, for Christ’s sake. When the hell are they going to not need the cash anymore? Do they enjoy being dependent on the kindness of strangers? Do they get off on our charity? What the hell is going on here? I don’t believe for one second that Israel will cease to exist the minute we cut them off. They’ve got an absolutely top-notch air force and quite frankly, the rest of the countries over there are so fucking backwards they wouldn’t be able to pull it together enough to mount any sort of serious threat against them.

I know the Six-Day War was decades ago now, but take a look at that scenario. Egypt could barely get anyone else on the same page when it came to taking out their mortal enemy in Israel, and even when they finally got ready to put the big attack on, Israel swooped in and pretty much destroyed Egypt’s entire air force in about 30 minutes. Shit, who is really going to threaten their existence over there, other than Iran, who, as far as anyone can tell, isn’t even capable of bombing them with anything nuclear anyways? Syria? Lebanon? Qatar? I laugh. If push really came to shove, Israel could wipe every one of those countries right off the map in no time. [/quote]

So we give the Israelis 3 billion and they turn around and buy weapons from our manufacturers.

Is that not just as good as a stimulus?[/quote]

Gee, I don’t know Utah. Let’s say I sell black tar heroin and you’re completely enveloped in the grip of a serious smack addiction. I take some of the profits I make from selling heroin to everybody on your block and I give you that money, interest-free with no expectation of it ever being paid back, and you give it right back to me in exchange for some heroin. Is that a stimulus package? Of course not.

And really, I think you don’t realize what a drop in the bucket that $3 billion is. The U.S. exports more than $66 billion in arms each year. We aren’t going to miss that $3 billion, not when we could just spread it around to countries like Saudi Arabia, Oman and the UAE, who are all buying much more weaponry from us than ever before in light of Iran’s actions.

[/quote]

Well I see you have fully enveloped the PWI snark face, congrats on that.

As for your actual point, if it’s a drop in the bucket…why did you write several of your gigantic blocks of text about it?[/quote]

Because it’s more than just a monetary investment. There are repercussions for our blank-check policy toward Israel that go way beyond simple dollars and cents.[/quote]

Fair enough.[/quote]

Sorry about the snark face. Us Giants fans gotta stick together.

39

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

Sorry about the snark face. Us Giants fans gotta stick together.[/quote]

This place brings it on, and no worries…back to the series we go.

40

[quote]atypical1 wrote:

[quote]b89 wrote:
The American public doesn’t have the stomach to win wars and our politicians don’t have the guts to put the country ahead of their career. Winning a war to politicians in this era is some bullshit withdrawal and racking up support for your party with little victories.[/quote]

I think that’s unfair in many ways. Sure, the American public is against carpet bombing cities like we did in WWII but I would argue that’s a good thing. We also need to remember that the wars that we fight now aren’t like WWII where everyone wore a uniform and we simply declared war against an entire country.

Since Vietnam we’ve been fighting small groups within a country with the general goal of not destroying the country we are in. In WWII (and previous wars) we really didn’t care and the goal was to just race to the capital. That’s not the case now. We won the initial invasion into Iraq quite handily but the subsequent occupation was tougher because of all of the splinter groups. So we are trying to rebuild a country while simultaneously defeating an army that wears no uniform. Imagine if that was the scenario in Japan or Germany after WWII and how tough our occupation there would have been.

It’s not as simple as just throwing troops or bombs at the problem and hoping it goes away.

james[/quote]

Carpet bombing cities is unnecessary, giving troops fair ROEs and being in it to win it’s enough.