T Nation

This is for Bill, Brock or anyone in the know.

There has been a little talk about oral winstrol on this board and how some individuals get great gains from it that last. I am 22, I know I shouldnt use roids but I have a good shot of getting drafted in next years MLB draft and I would like to gain an edge, wheather it be legal or not. I was thinking on stacking oral winny’s and the new Biotest N-17E. I was wondering if high dosages of winny in oral form can have any negative impact on my health, now or in the future. I would like to gain about 15 pounds of muscle and lose 10-15 pounds of fat. I am currently 5’8", 205-210 and about 13% body fat. To get drafted I need to realy impress the scout swith my strength and size due to my lack of height. If anyone can help me come up with a dosing plan if this is the correct thing to do then I would apprectiate any help. Money is not a factor so I can stack this with Methoxy-7, tribex, whatever–I just dont want to go too crazy on the sauce if it is going to have negative reprocussions on my future health. Thanks to anyone that replys.

It may and will probably work for you. It probably won’t have any repurcusions on your health. The only thing is, are you sure you have maxed yourself out naturally?? Looking to be a professional athlete, if you use the stuff once where are you gonna go from there?? It’s unlikely that you’ll be able to continue making natural gains on your own after you’ve stopped the steroids. So if size and strength are what’s gonna get you drafted and you do get drafted then you’ll most likely have to keep taking the juice to maintain the size and strength…just a thought.

"It’s unlikely that you’ll be able to continue making natural gains on your own after you’ve stopped the steroids. "???
That is a false statement. About 3 years ago I didn’t know shit about gear. But everyone on my High school football team was on so I thought I had to use if I wanted to play. I used something like 3cc of T-200 every other day for about 2 months straight. My nuts shrivled up and it took about 4 months for them to start hanging again. I have made great gains since I started lifting clean about a year ago. You should be fine with your milder stack of winnie.

I would do a cycle of either test cyp or enanthate. It would be alot cheaper than winny and probably more effective. I think test is the best when it comes to size and strength. I would go for at least 600mg a week. Keep nolvadex on hand and take clomid during your cycle.

Yes, Ripped, that is very possible for a high school guy. But my point is, when you come off steroids you will tend to revert back to your natural limit. Obviously in your case, even when on the juice you never got close to your natural limit so that’s why you were able to continue making gains afterward. Now had you gone above and beyond that point while on your cycle, most likely you would gradually over a moderate amount of time come back down afterwards.

I don’t believe that there has to be a gradual reversion to the"natural" limits. If you eat and exercise enough for the mass you have the new limit should be maintained. Unless a state of catabolism occurs,i.e. old age,trauma. Just my thoughts,Nick out.

At 5’8", and 210, I think too much more size would be a detriment rather than an advantage. When I played college ball, I played at 5’7" and 215 with about 8% BF, and I was WAY too big. Granted, there is the question of flexibility which I was lacking. Anyway, my point is that I highly doubt you are anywhere near your peak natural strenght at 22. Since graduating college, two years ago, I have put
55lbs. on my bench, 120 lbs. on my squat, and 75 lbs. on my deadlift. If I were you I would consult a serious strength trainer, and natural supplementation methods. My experience with baseball strength trainers is that they usually try to put you on some pussy workout. It would be a waste of time to go on gear if you are on a “baseball” workout anyway. Whatever you choose to do, best of luck.
You are pursuing a dream that eluded me my whole life.

Jo Mamma, Thanks for the reply. Believe me at 210 pounds I am about the 3rd or 4th biggest on my team!! These guys are tremendous. Of course they are all on the sauce, but regardless, they are bigger. I am going to consult Charles Staley and train with him when I go out to Vegas later in the year. I figure he will be able to help me tremendously. I agree with you on the pussy baseball workouts. I dont know where the “experts” got them from but there is no way the major leaguers are doing these kind of workouts. What do you suggest? I guess I will try the N-17E when it arrives. My goals are really to get strong and I want to lean out so I can improve my speed. So maybe my original post didnt express my true goals. Oh yeah, where did you play ball–there is nothing like it man–Im savoring my last year(hopefully not).

I agree with Jo Mama… I would go so far as to argue that at 5’8" and 210lbs, you probably don’t need to put on ANY muscle mass. You’re not going to be a power hitter at that height, so don’t try to be. Impress them with your speed. Just look at Rafael Furcal of the Atlanta Braves. The dude’s 19 and he’s really small, but his speed makes him a tremendous lead-off hitter. That means you really should only be concerned about fat loss and keeping most of your training in the “neural” ranges. Keep your reps pretty low most of the time, and ALWAYS focus on exploding the weight in the concentric, regardless of your rep range. You could definitely opt to do some speed/sprinting work too. Of course, I’m gonna recommend MD6 and whatever new fat burners Biotest comes out with. To get down to about 6% where you need to be to look nice and cut, you’ll have to lose about 15 lbs of pure fat. 5’8", 195 lbs at 6% bf is plenty big, trust me. And if you get your speed up, you’re sure to look impressive.

Nandrolone, in the form of Deca, and Winstrol stack very well, so N-17E and Winstrol should as well. Winstrol (stanozolol) is 17-alkylated though and therefore you shouldn’t plan on taking it on a continuous basis over a long period of time. 8 weeks cycle, with at least as much time off after that, can’t be expected to give you any problems, nor would 2 on / 4 off, even if a couple of the
off weeks have light Winstrol use in the morning.

The 17-alkylation toxicity thing is real, but basically the body can deal with it provided you also give the liver good rest periods. So it’s not a major issue with intelligent cycling and reasonable doses.

Number 1. Baseball isn’t about strength and size, it is about hitting, feilding, and pitching. If you cannot do that then forget about it. If you are not hitting home runs with an alluminum bat right now, you certainly will not with steroids and a wooden bat. If it increases your power numbers that much, what happens when you go off the gas? You lose that power and get cut from the team because of steroid/drug testing. LEARN HOW TO HIT FOR AVERAGE NOT POWER. Your body is not built for that.

I do hit for average as i have a carrer 407 average in 3 years at the collegiate level as well as only 5 errors in 3 years playing more than 40 games per season. So I have already learned to hit for average and know how to field. Jeff Bagwell hit for only average and no power in college and even in the minors and he bacame a power hitter once he reached the majors. He is around my height. My teammate is 5’8" 170m pounds and he lead the country in home runs last year. Two seasons ago we used wood bats and I had my highest home run output (6) to this date. So you cant tell me what to do unless you have seen me play. I just thought that a little more power can help me in the long run.

Bill thanks a lot for the info—How much winny(orals) should I do while stacking it with the N-17E? Can you give me a quick breakdown and do I need clomid? Thanks

JD, Clomid isn’t needed while using Winstrol and Androsol (or any 4-AD product) since Winstrol doesn’t aromatize, and 4-AD use doesn’t increase estrogen levels. Oral use of Winstrol would best be in the 50-100 mg/day range in my opinion.

Oops, you were asking about stacking with N-17E (not available yet) and not Androsol. Same answer though: nandrolone, contrary to what many think, at moderate doses does not increase estrogen levels.

One thing to think about is that you could probably fail a drug test for nandrolone for a very long time after using N17-E.

Hey Bill, Is T17-E going to be released at the same time as the N17-E? I’m not really crazy about testing deca positive for a year. In addition, wouldn’t T17-E (provided you have an effective anti-aromatase) be better than N17-E in the case of not stacking and also gram for gram much more effective?