This Does Not Make Sense...

A while ago T-Nation posted a strength standards article and after about 16 months of work I’ve come close to the “decent” level of strength in several exercises. Here are the important ones:

Exercise Standard (Me)
Bent over row - 225 (215)
Bicep curl - 80 (75)

I’m a little overweight at 200 lbs but the number of pull-ups I can do is…only 3. And I’m cheating on the last one.

Not only is the standard about 10, but I’ve felt my pull-ups (all variations) have been much, much weaker than everything else. For most of the time I’ve done them, I’ve had to use weight assistance and I still feel extremely weak while doing them.

The big clue is that my arms are tiny, yet I can curl the amount that apparently corresponds (in the standard) to being able to do about 10 pull-ups. So I can’t figure out what’s going on here. I’ve tried harder to develop my biceps than anything else, since they’re lagging so much. I’ve tried quite a few recommendations I’ve seen here, but nothing really helps.

In the time my chest measurement has gone from 36 to 42 inches, my arms have stayed around 13. Any advice? I’ll try anything, at this point.

I’d be willing to bet the extra fat you are carrying on your body is making it hard to do pullups. You won’t even have to get stronger, if you lose 20 lbs(or whatever it’s just a random number) those pullups will be easier by default.

I wonder if your form on the above exercises is a factor at all. Most people throw their ‘curls’, and ‘bounce’ their Bent Rows at a 90 degree angle. However, you can’t really cheat a pullup in the same way. Maybe you’re not as strong at curls and rows as you think you are? (not a dig, but a thought)

-S

start your back workout with 50 pullups if you can only do one you do 50 sets of one you will get stronger i used to knockout 10 sets of 5 in fact i was so determined to do more pullups i used to do 20 sets of 5

If he can only do two with good form he will be doing just pullups for an hour or more, if he can even make it. That’s a two rep max weight done FIFTY times in a workout. I don’t think he’s at the level where something like Arnold’s advice is applicable yet.

I’d agree with scottiscool, doing the arnold 50 repper may not be ideal to begin with if you cant get any - but it’s a good idea if shooting for say 15 reps is possible by getting a triple, a few doubles and a bunch of singles.

It’s usually the lower part of the pullup that’s weakest, as for most i guess, so it could be that using a platform and taking just a bit of weight off on the lower portion (by ‘cheating’ - i.e. letting some of your weight rest on the platform for the lowest 1/3rd of the movement’ could work. takes discipline though, too easy to cheat.

Might just be that the OP needs to do pull downs with 120-170 lbs until strength increases to bodyweight then try pullups again.

i know its not recommended… but sometimes gettin better at pulldowns and increasing the weight can help.

obviously dropping weight will help as well, but if you can increase your reps at 200, imagine how many you could do at a lighter weight.

perhaps try some negatives after your 2 or even add weight and just do the negatives, this will help develop strength in that area as well.

i know i used to not be able to do a single pullup at about 215 but now i can rep out 5 or 6 with 30lbs attached at 240lbs bw… good luck…

For me it’s the last 3 inches of the pullup that are the most difficult. Some people build muscle in their legs easily, but can’t get their upper body to grow for anything and vice versa. Don’t stress over it, you’ll just build a mental block and that will hold you back as much as anything.

There are two things that really helped me with chin-ups. The first is intensity while trying to gain mass and the second was dieting down.

If you say you are overweight I would recommend dieting down to 10-12% body fat. Reason being, when you lose the extra fat you will feel lighter on your feet and will kill the pull-up bar. (see article on Former Fat Boy (FFB))

I’m 160 lbs, can curl 80 lb. and do about 15 chin-ups. My point being that when I attach 20 lbs to a weight belt and do chin ups I can only do about 5 (for now). So 200 lb would make things that much more difficult.

If you are trying to get bigger, the 50 chin-ups will force you to work your ass off. If you want to reap the benefits of seeing your abs and defined muscles, diet down. I recommend creatine for that “shrinking feeling” when dieting down.

[quote]kfol wrote:

Not only is the standard about 10, but I’ve felt my pull-ups (all variations) have been much, much weaker than everything else. For most of the time I’ve done them, I’ve had to use weight assistance and I still feel extremely weak while doing them.

The big clue is that my arms are tiny, yet I can curl the amount that apparently corresponds (in the standard) to being able to do about 10 pull-ups. So I can’t figure out what’s going on here. I’ve tried harder to develop my biceps than anything else, since they’re lagging so much. I’ve tried quite a few recommendations I’ve seen here, but nothing really helps.
[/quote]

Pull-ups use a lot of muscles besides biceps; I’d say the back muscles are probably the limiting factor for most folks, not the biceps.

Do you have a pull-up assist machine at your gym? (Ours is called the Gravitron, not to be confused with the amusement park ride Gravitron-2000 that spins you in circles and then the floor disappears.)If so, use it!

Pull/Chin Ups have not much to do with how much you can curl (biceps). 95% of the people you see curling cheat anyways (as someone else already said).

They are primarily a Latissimus dorsi/Teres major exercise

If you can do 2 with decent form at 200lbs you aren’t very weak either

I would recommend maybe doing sets of 2 with ~90-120 sec rest between until you cannot complete the second chinup with good form.

Do them ~3-4 times per week, before any kind of isolation work for any muscle involved in the pullup

If you have no access the a assisted pullup machine, normal lat pulldowns with heavy weight ~5RM and/or straight arm cable pulldowns with moderate weight ~12RM (too much weight here isnt good for your elbow joints) help, too

The main problem (as others have now pointed out) is that you think that pull-ups are an arm exercise. I’d bet that you probably aren’t doing the exercise properly as you probably aren’t pulling with the right muscles.

When I do pull-ups I don’t pull with my arms at all (they move but I don’t actively pull with them) and when I chin-up I only pull with my arms at the end.

I would suggest:

  1. Focusing on the right muscles when doing the exercise.

  2. Making your lats stronger. You could try slow negatives and as you have an assistance machine you could try 1-armed slow negatives (these are good as you can get even more of a stretch).