T Nation

This Day in History

Today marks the anniversary of the real Nakba, or perhaps more precisely the κα�?α�?�?�?ο�?ή – the Catastrophe: on this day in 1453, the armies of the Ottoman Sultan Mehmet II entered Constantinople, marking the end of the Eastern Roman Empire, more commonly known as the Byzantine Empire.

If anything deserves to be called an occupation, and a nakba, it is this, although it has, like so many other bloody conquests in human history, been legitimized by time. Still, if the descendants of the Christian inhabitants of Constantinople and Anatolia were to demand, and receive, a right of return, rapidly-Islamizing Turkey would look vastly different from how it looks now.

On this day in 1453, the conquerers were extraordinarily brutal. Historian Steven Runciman notes that the Muslim soldiers “slew everyone that they met in the streets, men, women, and children without discrimination. The blood ran in rivers down the steep streets from the heights of Petra toward the Golden Horn. But soon the lust for slaughter was assuaged. The soldiers realized that captives and precious objects would bring them greater profit.” (The Fall of Constantinople 1453, Cambridge University Press, 1965, p. 145.)

Some jihadists “made for the small but splendid churches by the walls, Saint George by the Charisian Gate, Saint John in Petra, and the lovely church of the monastery of the Holy Saviour in Chora, to strip them of their stores of plate and their vestments and everything else that could be torn from them. In the Chora they left the mosaics and frescoes, but they destroyed the icon of the Mother of God, the Hodigitria, the holiest picture in all Byzantium, painted, so men said, by Saint Luke himself. It had been taken there from its own church beside the Palace at the beginning of the siege, that its beneficient presence might be at hand to inspire the defenders on the walls. It was taken from its setting and hacked into four pieces.” (P. 146.)

The jihadists also entered the Hagia Sophia, which for nearly a thousand years had been the grandest church in Christendom. The faithful had gathered within its hallowed walls to pray during the city�??s last agony. The Muslims, according to Runciman, halted the celebration of Orthros (morning prayer); the priests, according to legend, took the sacred vessels and disappeared into the cathedral�??s eastern wall, through which they shall return to complete the divine service one day. Muslim men then killed the elderly and weak and led the rest off into slavery.

Once the Muslims had thoroughly subdued Constantinople, they set out to Islamize it. According to the Muslim chronicler Hoca Sa�??deddin, tutor of the sixteenth-century Sultans Murad III and Mehmed III, “churches which were within the city were emptied of their vile idols and cleansed from the filthy and idolatrous impurities and by the defacement of their images and the erection of Islamic prayer niches and pulpits many monasteries and chapels became the envy of the gardens of Paradise.”

It has come to be known as Black Tuesday, the Last Day of the World. Tuesday has been regarded as unlucky by superstitious Greeks ever since. But they’re about the only ones who remember. The world has forgotten what happened on Black Tuesday, and on so many other days like it from India to Spain, and persists in the fantasy that Islam does not contain an imperialist impulse and that Muslims can be admitted without limit into Western countries without any attempt to determine how many would like ultimately to subjugate and Islamize their new countries, the way their forefathers did to Constantinople so long ago.

Oh, and there are a few others who remember as well. Sheik Ali Al-Faqir, former Jordanian minister of religious endowment, said this on Al-Aqsa TV on May 2, 2008: “We proclaim that we will conquer Rome, like Constantinople was conquered once…” Hamas MP and Islamic cleric Yunis Al-Astal said this, also on Al-Aqsa TV, on April 11, 2008: “Very soon, Allah willing, Rome will be conquered, just like Constantinople was, as was prophesized by our Prophet Muhammad.”

Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi remembers also. In writing about “signs of the victory of Islam,” he referred to a hadith: “The Prophet Muhammad was asked: ‘What city will be conquered first, Constantinople or Romiyya?’ He answered: ‘The city of Hirqil [i.e. the Byzantine emperor Heraclius] will be conquered first’ - that is, Constantinople�?� Romiyya is the city called today ‘Rome,’ the capital of Italy. The city of Hirqil [that is, Constantinople] was conquered by the young 23-year-old Ottoman Muhammad bin Morad, known in history as Muhammad the Conqueror, in 1453. The other city, Romiyya, remains, and we hope and believe [that it too will be conquered]. This means that Islam will return to Europe as a conqueror and victor, after being expelled from it twice - once from the South, from Andalusia, and a second time from the East, when it knocked several times on the door of Athens.”

Mehmet the Conqueror was motivated by exactly the same religious ideology that motivates the Islamic warriors of the contemporary era. Historian Halil Inalcik says of the Ottomans that their “culture was dominated by the Islamic conception of Holy War or ghaza.” Ghaza refers to warfare to expand the land under the hegemony of Islam – and thus it is not identical to jihad, but is one of the chief means of jihad. Inalcik continues: “By God’s command the ghaza had to be fought against the infidels’ dominions, dar al-harb (the abode of war), ceaselessly and relentlessly until they submitted.” (The Cambridge History of Islam, Volume 1A, Cambridge University Press, 1970, p. 269)

And Mehmet himself explained as he argued for the necessity of conquering Constantinople: “The ghaza is our basic duty, as it was in the case of our fathers.” (The Cambridge History of Islam, Volume 1A, p. 295)

He was pursuing offensive jihad against the infidels, in accord with the mandates of the Qur’an and Sunnah. If anything today’s jihadists are less radical than he was: because there is no caliphate today, they do not consider themselves authorized to wage offensive jihad, since that is the prerogative of the caliph only. They characterize all their jihad activity as defensive.

May 29, Black Tuesday, the Last Day of the World, the true Nakba: today should be a day for all those threatened by Islamic jihad supremacism to redouble our efforts to resist, so that more such catastrophes may never again destroy the lives of free people.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/021216.php

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it’s Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it’s Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you’ve a date in Constantinople
She’ll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can’t say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can’t go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works?
That’s nobody’s business but the Turks

I enjoy a good troll job a lot but this lacks complete subtlety. None of the Muslims on here are going to get sucked into this discussion. Constantinople? C’mon PR, try harder.

Example — put it in Get a Life, and add something inflammatory. The mods’ll move it and the people you fire up will follow it in. Put something about Muslims melting down crosses with pics, and stuff. C’mon, try dude!!

Wait… so your argument is that the Christians (who aren’t a nation nor a united people) should ‘take back’ Turkey (a nation) from Muslims (who are also not a nation nor are they a united people)?

Lolwat?

Zap never struck me as a TMBG fan.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Wait… so your argument is that the Christians (who aren’t a nation nor a united people) should ‘take back’ Turkey (a nation) from Muslims (who are also not a nation nor are they a united people)?

Lolwat?[/quote]

Well, I can’t speak for PR, but it would be nice if the Islamists took their boot off the necks of Christians still living there. I’d settle with that.

Edit: Also it does make the muslims, offended at the survival of a tiny Jewish nation amongst them, seem rather petty. Especially when still harrassing and oppressing the descendents of the conquered in your own nations, slowly choking out those populations.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, I can’t speak for PR, but it would be nice if the Islamists took their boot off the necks of Christians still living there. [/quote]

And I’d like thieves to stop stealing, politicians to stop lying, assassins to stop killing and racists to stop hating.

Let’s see who gets their wish first.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, I can’t speak for PR, but it would be nice if the Islamists took their boot off the necks of Christians still living there.

And I’d like thieves to stop stealing, politicians to stop lying, assassins to stop killing and racists to stop hating.

Let’s see who gets their wish first.[/quote]

I was in error.

I think its natural for Islamists to oppress minorities. Fanatics always want to believe that their religion or whatnot is the best. They are genuine ‘True Believers’, a sad trait in humanity. Zealotry for anything outside your own selfish interests in usually evil.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Zealotry for anything outside your own selfish interests in usually evil.
[/quote]

Did HH just write that?

I must be dreaming.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, I can’t speak for PR, but it would be nice if the Islamists took their boot off the necks of Christians still living there.

And I’d like thieves to stop stealing, politicians to stop lying, assassins to stop killing and racists to stop hating.

Let’s see who gets their wish first.[/quote]

You’re right. I don’t expect the Islamists to mend their ways anytime soon.

We should also remember that on this day, today in the news in fact, it was reported that Iran’s morality police have begun brutal crackdowns on Christian converts. Wackmadenijad even wished death sentences on those who converted from Islam.

Nice representation of the faith, eh?

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Constantinople? C’mon PR, try harder.[/quote]

Yes, I think that about sums it up.

Recently, I’ve read threads in which quite a few posters have bemoaned the idea that the Atlantic slave trade is still, in one form or another, an issue. That holding on to this dark piece of history is detrimental to one nation in particular and perhaps humanity as a whole.

And yet now, we’re turning the clock back to 1453?? Lol! So much for letting go and moving on…

[quote]red bull wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Constantinople? C’mon PR, try harder.

Yes, I think that about sums it up.

Recently, I’ve read threads in which quite a few posters have bemoaned the idea that the Atlantic slave trade is still, in one form or another, an issue. That holding on to this dark piece of history is detrimental to one nation in particular and perhaps humanity as a whole.

And yet now, we’re turning the clock back to 1453?? Lol! So much for letting go and moving on…

[/quote]

Yes, it appears that little in the Islamic mindset has changed since the sack of Constantinople.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Wait… so your argument is that the Christians (who aren’t a nation nor a united people) should ‘take back’ Turkey (a nation) from Muslims (who are also not a nation nor are they a united people)?

Lolwat?

Well, I can’t speak for PR, but it would be nice if the Islamists took their boot off the necks of Christians still living there. I’d settle with that.

Edit: Also it does make the muslims, offended at the survival of a tiny Jewish nation amongst them, seem rather petty. Especially when still harrassing and oppressing the descendents of the conquered in your own nations, slowly choking out those populations.[/quote]

I agree with your edit, but they’re separate issues.

Muslims are not a united people. The Muslims in Turkey are not the Muslims in Iran are not the Muslims in Saudi Arabia. To pretend otherwise would be ridiculous.

Do radical Muslims claim to hate Jews, or Israeli’s? Just interested.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:

I agree with your edit, but they’re separate issues.

Muslims are not a united people. The Muslims in Turkey are not the Muslims in Iran are not the Muslims in Saudi Arabia. To pretend otherwise would be ridiculous.

Do radical Muslims claim to hate Jews, or Israeli’s? Just interested.[/quote]

Here’s a short list of who they hate:

Americans (ALL)
Christians (ALL)
Jews (ALL)
Israelis (ALL)
Europeans (only the ones that won’t eventually convert to Islam)
Africans (only the non-Muslims)

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Wait… so your argument is that the Christians (who aren’t a nation nor a united people) should ‘take back’ Turkey (a nation) from Muslims (who are also not a nation nor are they a united people)?

Lolwat?

Well, I can’t speak for PR, but it would be nice if the Islamists took their boot off the necks of Christians still living there. I’d settle with that.

Edit: Also it does make the muslims, offended at the survival of a tiny Jewish nation amongst them, seem rather petty. Especially when still harrassing and oppressing the descendents of the conquered in your own nations, slowly choking out those populations.

I agree with your edit, but they’re separate issues.

Muslims are not a united people. The Muslims in Turkey are not the Muslims in Iran are not the Muslims in Saudi Arabia. To pretend otherwise would be ridiculous.

Do radical Muslims claim to hate Jews, or Israeli’s? Just interested.[/quote]

Ask Tantawi:

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, I can’t speak for PR, but it would be nice if the Islamists took their boot off the necks of Christians still living there.

And I’d like thieves to stop stealing, politicians to stop lying, assassins to stop killing and racists to stop hating.

Let’s see who gets their wish first.

So you’re saying that Islamists, by definition, oppress Christians, then, right?[/quote]

They’ll oppress anything with a pulse. And based on observation, Christians don’t get treated any worse than Muslims they disagree with.

Actually, out of the top of my head, I can’t name a single Islamist groups that targets Christians based on their faith. Most of the oppression (and killings!) is directed towards Muslims they consider as heretics.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:

Actually, out of the top of my head, …

Thank you for your response.

And, please, the next time you want to ridicule someone’s spelling or word choice, recall this post of yours, ok? [/quote]

Thank you for pointing it out. I encourage you to correct any such blatant mistake.

Learning is fun!