Thinking of Becoming Christian (No Troll)

Hey what happened to Headhunter, anyway? His last post was the one starting this thread.

Yo Headhunter…come out and plaaaaaayyyyyaaaayyy!!!

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

The middle half?
[/quote]

I would never imply that you’re average, Doc.

That would be mean. [/quote]

Doc is one of the smartest and humblest guys I’ve met on the internet. I hope he sticks around now that Thunderbolt has gone. In fact, I hope Thunderbolt comes back. These guys are the REAL people without an agenda beyond common sense. Humility/humbleness and wisdom. Are they worth more than knowledge? For sure. What’s knowledge without wisdom and guidance?

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]squating_bear wrote:

Hah - good to have you back.[/quote]

Thanks. Do I know you?
[/quote]
Nah, I don’t think so. I was just saying

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

The middle half?
[/quote]

I would never imply that you’re average, Doc.

That would be mean. [/quote]

Doc is one of the smartest and humblest guys I’ve met on the internet. I hope he sticks around now that Thunderbolt has gone. In fact, I hope Thunderbolt comes back. These guys are the REAL people without an agenda beyond common sense. Humility/humbleness and wisdom. Are they worth more than knowledge? For sure. What’s knowledge without wisdom and guidance?[/quote]

A compliment far too kind and undeserved.

But insofar as coincidences brings us together, I note that the last words of Maimonides’ Mishneh Torah, in a section about fruition of The Messiah, is Isaiah 11:9: “…for the land will be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the seabed.”

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:
…Daniel is not considered a prophet…
[/quote]

Huh?[/quote]

Tradition.

Go figure: Daniel is not traditionally considered a prophet–an “empty vessel” of God’s voice; and neither is Joseph, who also interpreted dreams and saw the future. Before Moses, Balaam, a non-Israelite, was called a prophet, and tradition holds that Obadiah was a convert.

Hey…I don’t write the rules.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

The middle half?
[/quote]

I would never imply that you’re average, Doc.

That would be mean. [/quote]

Yes, well, the average would be mean, would it not?

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

The middle half?
[/quote]

I would never imply that you’re average, Doc.

That would be mean. [/quote]

Yes, well, the average would be mean, would it not?[/quote]

Precisely my point.

[quote]DrSkeptix wrote:

Before Moses, Balaam, a non-Israelite, was called a prophet[/quote]

Half of our politicians could be prophets, if all that it takes to qualify is talking out your ass…

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

And that reminds me of Bilbo’s epic epigram, certainly applicable here: “I don’t know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”

I think you know which half you’re in. [/quote]

A beautifully timed reference and one of my many beloved quotes. I just finished reading it yet again yesterday.

I’m not looking to get into a debate, especially on a Tnation forum… But If you are thinking of accepting Christ, I would strongly recommend it as it is the most important decision you will ever make. Check out material from Ravi Zacharias, he is a very knowledgable man who can help inform you. check out some of his books. And also the Bible. Don’t worry about donominations and just find a church that follows Christ and you will find some genuine people to talk to.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Church Headhunter. You’re still welcome. I know you get up here. (thuogh I’m about 95% sure yer trollin.)

Oh, yeah Christianity ain’t got nuthin to do with happiness. “Happiness” is not the same as Peace and joy. They come from new life in Christ having been born again from sin and death. Might as well put this over here too. Here’s our pastor from last Sunday. Dead tired n half asleep. Complete with all the “magic stuff”. Once God gets it in your head that He has called light, matter and all the vast cosmos into existence from nothing by fiat command? The magic thing takes care of itself. Mak, great to see ya buddy.

I’m thinking of going back to my roots, in Judaism. Too many choices among the Christian faiths.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Okay, let’s first take a look at the concept of the Messiah. Masiah is a Hebrew word meaning “one who is anointed.” King David, you will recall, had his head anointed with olive oil by the prophet Samuel, signifying that he would be the next king of Israel. He was, strictly speaking, a messiah (little m). There were lots of little m messiahs in the Hebrew Bible: kings, priests, prophets, and even the temple of Solomon were all consecrated in this fashion.

When Jews talk about The Messiah (big M), however, they are referring to the guy prophesied by Moses in the book of Deuteronomy. He said that this Messiah would come from among the people, and that God would put words in his mouth, commanding the people what to do. The Messiah, it is believed, will unite all of Israel, defeat the anti-Messiah (at least, they used to believe in the Anti-Messiah; not sure how many do anymore), and rule over the faithful in a thousand-year reign of peace.

It’s important to note two things: one, that the Jewish concept of Messiah does not include “of divine origin” or "son of God; and two, that he hasn’t shown up yet.

The Arabic equivalent of the Hebrew word masiah is masih. The same word, basically, minus one vowel sound.

In Islam, the Messiah is identified as the prophet foretold by Moses, who will unite all of Israel and instruct them in the proper worship of God, and in the proper obedience of the Law. Muslims see Jesus as having fulfilled this role, the last prophet of the Jews, whose message was ultimately rejected by his own people.

Furthermore, they believe that he was immaculately conceived, born of a virgin, was crucified, and ascended to heaven, where he will be until the day when he’ll come again, defeat the false messiah (masih ad-dajjal: we would say “Antichrist”), and once again unite all believers in the true worship of God.

I’d say this comes pretty close to the Christian concept of Messiah, minus of course that a Christian believes that Jesus is also an incarnation of God. Which, as has already been pointed out, was not universally believed by all early Christians anyway.

I hardly need mention, of course, that the word “christ” is simply the English equivalent of the Koine Greek word xristos, which is in turn the equivalent of the Hebrew word masiah.

Muslims believe that Jesus is the Christ, and that he’s coming again. Jews don’t.

So explain to me again how the “Christian and Jewish concept of Messiahship” is so much different from that of Islam.

Now, as to Moses and Muhammad.

Let’s see: both were orphans, both traced their ancestry to Abraham, both herded sheep, both received the calling to follow God relatively late in life. Both received (or claimed to receive, anyway), the inspired word of God, in a cave on a mountain, and both received a set of laws that was to lead their respective peoples away from idolotry, and toward the proper worship of God. Both had multiple wives, and sons who didn’t amount to much. Both led their followers in a frenzy of conquest, converting or slaughtering all who stood in their way.

Superficial, perhaps, but those are the similarities I can think of right off the bat. But please. Show me how Moses had more in common with Jesus.

Oh, and Tiribulus, I would challenge you to go back and read the Old Testament and the Quran, carefully and without bias, and then talk to me again about how God is “petulant” and “tantrum-throwing” in one scripture but not in the other.
[/quote]

I have read your posts for years now and I think it possible that you were the inspiration for Will Hunting, minus the emotional baggage.

How the fuck do you know so much about everything?

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

I’m thinking of going back to my roots, in Judaism. Too many choices among the Christian faiths.
[/quote]

If your mother was Jewish there’s no need to “go back” to anything. You’ve been a Jew since the day you were born.

All you need to do now is start acting like one. Of course, now you have 603 more commandments to keep, assuming you’ve been keeping the first ten.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

I have read your posts for years now and I think it possible that you were the inspiration for Will Hunting, minus the emotional baggage.

How the fuck do you know so much about everything? [/quote]

Maybe I’m just “wicked smaaht”.

Kidding.

I’ll tell you what I told a Baptist pastor in Minnesota at the end of a particularly vigorous email debate we were having on the Book of Job and the Nature of Evil.

I read, I converse, I think, and I question. Occasionally I find an answer or two. I would certainly never claim to have all the answers, or even most of them. And any intellectually honest person would likely say the same.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Let’s see: both were orphans, both traced their ancestry to Abraham, both herded sheep, both received the calling to follow God relatively late in life. Both received (or claimed to receive, anyway), the inspired word of God, in a cave on a mountain, and both received a set of laws that was to lead their respective peoples away from idolotry, and toward the proper worship of God. Both had multiple wives, and sons who didn’t amount to much. Both led their followers in a frenzy of conquest, converting or slaughtering all who stood in their way.

[/quote]

Moses did not lead the “frenzy of conquest,” but you already knew that.

Moses was called directly by God (burning bush). Muhammad when called was first confronted by an Angel who Muhammed thought was the devil. Muhammad’s wife, who controlled everything including Muhammad (this comes into play why Islam makes women property, because Muhammad was property of the woman), told him it was not the devil, but an angel. I guess she was correct because the devil is an angel, but a rebellious one. I guess a woman can lead you on the wrong path.

Just imagine if Abraham and the Israelites had actually done what God had instructed them to do. Muhammad never would have been born. Some believe that the Ishmaelites were actually destroyed and gone around 2-300 BC, so Muhammad really can not trace his roots directly back to Abraham.

Muhammad can make the claim, but is the claim an actual fact?

Varqanir, I will say I enjoy your posts, and I respect your views on a lot of topics. I am not attacking you in any way.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Church Headhunter. You’re still welcome. I know you get up here. (thuogh I’m about 95% sure yer trollin.)

Oh, yeah Christianity ain’t got nuthin to do with happiness. “Happiness” is not the same as Peace and joy. They come from new life in Christ having been born again from sin and death. Might as well put this over here too. Here’s our pastor from last Sunday. Dead tired n half asleep. Complete with all the “magic stuff”. Once God gets it in your head that He has called light, matter and all the vast cosmos into existence from nothing by fiat command? The magic thing takes care of itself. Mak, great to see ya buddy.
[/quote]

I’m thinking of going back to my roots, in Judaism. Too many choices among the Christian faiths.
[/quote]

Good luck with that.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Let’s see: both were orphans, both traced their ancestry to Abraham, both herded sheep, both received the calling to follow God relatively late in life. Both received (or claimed to receive, anyway), the inspired word of God, in a cave on a mountain, and both received a set of laws that was to lead their respective peoples away from idolotry, and toward the proper worship of God. Both had multiple wives, and sons who didn’t amount to much. Both led their followers in a frenzy of conquest, converting or slaughtering all who stood in their way.

[/quote]

Moses did not lead the “frenzy of conquest,” but you already knew that.

Moses was called directly by God (burning bush). Muhammad when called was first confronted by an Angel who Muhammed thought was the devil. Muhammad’s wife, who controlled everything including Muhammad (this comes into play why Islam makes women property, because Muhammad was property of the woman), told him it was not the devil, but an angel. I guess she was correct because the devil is an angel, but a rebellious one. I guess a woman can lead you on the wrong path.

Just imagine if Abraham and the Israelites had actually done what God had instructed them to do. Muhammad never would have been born. Some believe that the Ishmaelites were actually destroyed and gone around 2-300 BC, so Muhammad really can not trace his roots directly back to Abraham.

Muhammad can make the claim, but is the claim an actual fact?
[/quote]
Abraham did do what God had instructed him, though he did whine a lot about it, now the Israelites… Geez. Seriously, how hard was it not to have any God’s before the Lord? Every time a leader died who led them to the Lord, they polished off the baals and went nuts. And the violation of that simple commandment was the impetus for all the strife.