Looked? Can you explain
Thanks, Hulk. Don’t tell me hCG supply is drying up. The more I read about it the more important it sounds for someone with my symptoms. Ever try Clomid instead?
If the sharps don’t get too expensive every day would be my choice. I suppose the frequent micro dose would reduce the need for the sub Q slowing the absorption, IM makes a lot of sense on an every day schedule with minimal peaks and valleys and reducing the chance for adipose tissue to cause problems with the test. It was always a little odd to me on face value that Sub Q doesn’t cause more issues with the fat, but like you said, many guys find it effective, so the esters used must be pretty decent in that regard.
So my doctor wants to start with 100 mg every other week IM. I really wanted to avoid macro dosing for the up and down swings and to keep my SHBG numbers up. He also wants to avoid HCG due to side effects. I can’t say I’m surprised, as macro dosing T and HCG (which only has a half life of 2.5 days) does have some occasion for causing sides due to the extreme peaks and valleys that will be experienced. Proper micro dosing of T and HCG (with a half life of 2.5 days I don’t see how HCG could be anywhere near its top usefulness without an EOD schedule) should obviously avoid those sides. I understand the concern with mixing and keeping bacteriostatic sterile saline for ED or EOD HCG dosing, but I am used to that for my livestock and don’t see that as a legitimate barrier. As I am prescribed 50mg test per week so I could probably do 10mg on a 5x per week schedule as a micro dose, A Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Thursday Friday routine or a 14.25mg on an EOD routine.
I don’t mind starting on that dose and checking in a few months to see, I think I can micro it myself just fine, but I am worried about fertility without any HCG. I’ll keep asking about Clomid I guess.
Super open to ideas here.
As always, many thanks.
Just get HCG. It’s cheap and plentiful. And enclomiphene > Clomid if you’re a man who doesn’t have breast cancer. You can ask for it instead.
I (and many others) believe a lot of the benefits of higher testosterone come from the conversion to estrogen. It does so many beneficial things for our bodies & most docs are just now catching up to that.
IM works best, SQ is not recommended starting out and neither is HCG, at least at first. If fertility is a concern later on, then hold off for now, if not then please disregard the later part of my last sentence.
You’ll have to experiment as everyone’s response to the hormones or compounds is unique. At the minimum twice weekly for the HCG and you can change it up to increase the frequency is you so desire or are having problems.
Please note that some guys don’t tolerate HCG at any dosage and maintaining fertility using HCG means not feeling well while on it and losing some of the benefits of TRT like libido and erections.
You should run from this idiot doctor, stop now find another doctor!
The guidelines say 75-100mg per week and often this isn’t enough.
Sure, no problem. My muscles always looked much fuller the day after my HCG shot. I remember the effect being so dramatic that I actually used to time my HCG shot on Fridays so that when I had pool parties/cookouts on Saturdays, I looked a good 5 pounds heavier(in a good way). Has no one else every experienced this?
I’m purely speculating bro science here, but I think it was because of the sudden bump in E2. I always look and feel fuller when E2 is higher.
I also always had insane morning wood and almost uncontrollable libido the day after my HCG shot. It was a fantastic start to the weekend!
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Iron - luckily I don’t have breast cancer so I will look into enclomiphene. First I’ve heard of it, thanks, I always enjoy a good research project and more options. I agree, I think HCG is the way to go, at least start there and see how I feel on it. As far as getting it prescribed, more on that later…
Swoops - couldn’t agree more, can’t wait to have some results on this front. I will say that for me, if I am having a particularly bad few days I will take quality panax ginseng, which is supposed to help raise estrogen, and it does help me at least. Sometimes a lot. I refrain from taking this daily because as just a natural sup I don’t want to build up a tolerance and reduce its effectiveness.
System - I will start on IM, the whole adipose tissue causing possible issues makes sense on its face. I’ll probably do thigh injections to start. I know some guys do delts but with mixed results. Any thoughts on this? I assume delts have less total fat in the area and injections are closer to major blood flow as thigh arteries run pretty deep, giving delts slightly faster uptake?
As far as HCG and sides go, I would, as you mentioned, not want to loose libido or erection quality. As my libido is so low now I doubt it could make it worse, but HCG might hold back gains there. As I only have the Rx for T now, I will be mono treating on test C to start, so this should be a good base of experience if/when I can add it later.
I am more than happy to be looking for a different doctor. Yeah, 50 per week was pretty surprising. I am glad he was the first doc to listen to me, take my symptoms seriously, and get this figured out, but yeah, I am open to other suggestions. The only other people I know who have an endocrinologist do not like them, so I don’t have anyone that is recommended at the moment. Any ideas? I’m in the northern IL southern WI area. Should I look outside of GPs and Endos?
On a side note, for anybody reading this that is interested, as I have mentioned a few times in this thread that my libido is non existent and that my erection quality has gone down significantly the last two years, about a year ago I did some research on some supplements to try and solve those issues with just sups. I came up with a mix that works pretty well for me. I take maca and longjack on a regular-ish basis, but then I add large single doses (3x single serving) panax gensing, fenugreek, and horney goat weed if I make plans with the wife, and no more than an hour ahead of time if possible (HGW takes about 20 min to start for me). It really works for me, but I do see a difference in quality from one brand of sups to the next, even between brands rated at the same concentrations of effective ingredients. So start with a small sample and if it doesn’t work well try a different brand and see if it gets better. Also, everything but maca taste like crap so unless you are super cheap like me just buy the capsules, haha.
Professor - I know there has been some discussion of HCG sides above, but if the sides are what you mention, that would be welcome, haha.
As always, I do appreciate the input. I have some more research to do which is great, and I am really open to new doctor suggestions. After the whole covid thing, there might even be the option for remote docs no? I have some friends that do that for things like allergies and such.
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Just use daily cialis. All these sups all tend to affect other things.
Trtwuzup - what kind of effects? Maca can effect my sleep if taking too much, otherwise I haven’t noticed anything with the rest. How much does cialis cost? My goal is to not need any of that with proper hormone replacement therapy, but if it was cheap enough I could give it a try.
As far as the rest of my trt journey, I have had a bit of bad luck lately. I really cannot seem to find a doctor that I think will work for me, and after questioning my current doc and the dose and his not wanting to try HCG to preserve fertility he has been ignoring me so I haven’t even been able to even start on the 50 per week. Anybody have any suggestions?
After 1 gp, an endo and a urologist, I finally found a urologist to treat me. It’s good in the aspect that I am covered by insurance, but like system lord says, I’m on a cookie cutter approach. (100mg once a week). But, like you this dr was the only one who didn’t want to just pass my problems off as anxiety and suggest an SSRI. So for that I have some respect for my dr.
Having said this, it will be next to impossible to find a competent dr inside the system who focuses solely on male hormones. You might have to go to a clinic and with 180 tt there are 1000 of them waiting to take your money.
What I did was search my local area for urologists who deal with testosterone replacement specifically.
Hope this helps
Edit: I think your best bet to get treatment in the system is to try to find a urologist and stay away from endos.
Just my opinion of course.
I use Justin groce at the restore clinic. Very smart, willing to work with you and try things, and. It expensive.
Wannabe, I reached out to Justin a while back based on your recommendation and he was not doing telemedicine at that time. His pricing seemed very competitive for a clinic though. Maybe he has started offering telemedicine out of state.
Yea I’d check back. I’m out of state telemedicine with him.
Thanks Tom, I didn’t think about urologists. I will look them up tomorrow and ask around. I did remember reading about the amarican urological
society doing HCG as a standard protocol to keep fertility on test, so I would have an easier time on that front at minimum. But yeah, your doctor journey sounds like mine. I do appreciate my doc a lot, but this just not quite his wheelhouse.
Wanna-be, if that Justin does telemed, that sounds like an option, just a little scared of the "it’s expensive " line though, haha. My insurance can be not great at times, so it might not be too much worse. I’ll drop him a line and see where he is at, never hurts to ask.
Thanks guys.
Ok gentlemen, i must have misread Wanna-be on the pricing. The restore clinic does do telemed, and they are also not expensive. At least not by my definition. TRT plus HCG is $125 per month for everything after a $250 consultation (if you read the fine print). That may be more than some insurance, but I didn’t think it was too bad.
Now for me, my testosterone and blood work would be covered by my insurance with a copay, the doctor visits wouldn’t be covered, and neither would the HCG. So I’m not sure insurance would be any cheaper anyway.
Guess I’ll ask and see if they will take my recent blood tests, or if I’ll need to redo that too. I hope not, they are only a couple weeks old.
Well, some more bad news. While TheRestoreClinic does take telemed my state does not allow out of state telemed, so I can’t use the clinic. They were very fast and responsive to my emails, which was great, but so it goes. I did find a urologist that might be of some use, I’ll have to see him and see. Still a bummer though, the idea of telemed sounded super convenient.
Telemedicine is somewhat convenient. You will still have to do consultations, and IMO getting the Test is more difficult and expensive vs just going to the pharmacy and picking up an Rx. You still have to go in for blood work.
I was doing telemedicine, but I just can’t justify the cost when I can get a vial of Test E for $20. I did learn from the telemedicine experience, and I learned a lot here. I don’t think solo TRT is advisable for most people (rules for thee, but not for me), but if you are willing to get labs on your own, use resources like T-nation and are a stable person (not changing things up all the time, and not in your own head about it), it can be a great option (but illegal in the US).
Actually I would have no problem with that, and labs are easy. My wife would prefer it actually, her idea, just not sure how to go about it.