T Nation

Thinking About Making the Leap

Hey guys,

I’ve been thinking about doing a cycle of steroids/enhancers in order to jump start my journey back to respectability body-wise. Bit of background: I’m in my late 30s and have had two kids in the past few years and let myself go a bit (a lot). I used to be 6’4" and 220 lbs, which I’ve always felt is probably a good weight for me (although I was a bit doughier that I would’ve liked to be… basically had dad bod before being a dad lol) and played multiple sports, worked out semi-regularly.

However, I’m now around 270 lbs (though I feel like I carry it reasonably well, I’ve been told I have a good frame), energy levels always low, eat like shit and would like to not only cut weight/lean out quick but plan on continuing regular workouts in perpetuity to maintain a better physique and get the energy levels higher. In other words: after discussions and research I think a cycle could be the jump start I need that would also work to give me relatively quick results to keep me going.

After speaking with a friend of friend who has been using steroids regularly, I was recommended the following program:

Week 1-4 Dianabol (25mg per day) and 500 mg per week of testosterone enanthate.

Week 5-10 500 mg per week testosterone enanthate.

Week 11-12 nothing

Week 13-15 post cycle therapy (clomid, nolvadex)

I plan on not only adopting a rigorous workout routine but also vastly improving my food intake (both in terms of quality and intake). Does this seem like a worthwhile endeavour? As I mentioned, I have no interest in massing up but would rather lean out with definition and lose weight.

I’m just sick of being a chubby schlub and would like to get back to my old energy levels and athleticism. I’ve done a lot of online research in terms of the benefits and potential side effects so I understand what I’m getting into from that angle. Any thoughts/suggestions from you guys would be appreciated!

This will end in tears. Here’s why:

  1. You’re fat, which means your diet is bad. You need to clean that up and maintain it for at least six months before you touch anything.
  2. You’re fat, which means more e2 issues. Add in dbol and you’ve just given yourself a free pass to Gynoville.
  3. You’re probably already in a state of low testosterone, a state which will get worse with a cycle at your age.

Lucky for you there’s a way out.

  1. Build a better diet. Guys here will be happy to help you with nutrition tips and such. This is a supportive forum.
  2. Get blood work done to see if your testosterone is low. If it is then get on TRT and you will see massive improvement in strength, musculature, and quality of life.

I was once where you were. Fat, unhappy, but still trying to work through it because family is everything and your own life goes by the wayside. You can easily lose a ton of weight over the next six months with diet alone. Couple that with the potential for trt and you’ll feel like a new man. Easier, safer, and way smarter than the cycle you laid out. Set yourself up for success and you’ll be shocked how often it comes to you.

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why not do this first? vastly improving your nutrition will have a massive positive impact and you will get where you want to go. it just takes time, and discipline. sort out the basics first and in a years time re-evaluate.

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If your testosterone is low, and you lose weight, you may not even need TRT as your testosterone may recover. Try that first.

SB

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This is a good idea, but you sound skeptical as to whether you can actually stick to it.

Do it, prove to yourself you can, otherwise the cycle is just all the risks with none of the rewards.

A rigorous workout routine and solid diets are something you should have firmly under your belt before you even think of cycling, not something you Plan to do after.

Words to live by…

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Listen, I know you want added motivation and quick results, we all do, but I promise you, this will be a disaster. Steroids are not for a kickstart to the gym, they are for once you are already maxed out on your genetic potential, to give you the ability to continue growing and making progress.

Diet and exercise will change your life alone. Your testosterone is probably low, diet and exercise may be able to fix this. Get blood work done now, check Total and Free T, SHBG, E2, Prolactin. Dedicate 6 months to solid exercise and nutrition and retest. If your numbers are still low, TRT will absolutely help you. You might not need it though, and you might surprise yourself by the progress you’ve made.

Here’s the BIGGEST take away. Steroids are a big risk, you could screw your hormones up enough. Gains / progress from steroids do not hold or last unless you are incredibly diligent with your diet and exercise. You don’t have either of those down yet. Once you come off cycle, if your diet and training aren’t on point, your body will literally go back to its pre cycle self.

Make the life change. Give it some serious time. Wish you the best of luck. Diet and training will give you everything you need / want.

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I disagree with this notion. I don’t believe one has to have extensive training experience in order to earn a “gear card”. I also believe the ace card notion to be BS. I think gear should be reserved for those educated/thoughrughly aware of the risks involved, have a training background (as in current or prior athletic/weightlifting experience). But genetic max isn’t something I agree with. Many use low dosages recreationally, myself included. I see no reason why a TRT patient well versed regarding the potential long term ailments that can be induced should have to “earn anything” if they wish to try 400mg weekly of X Y or Z or whatever (say 100mg test 300mg mast or whatever they use) so long as they know HOW to train/eat for their goals

Prior to my first experiment (250 weekly) I think I had… perhaps in TOTAL… 3-4 years training experience (three years very young and six months recent at the time) and a background (prior to chronic pain becoming too much to handle) in athletics (soccer, tennis, martial arts)

I wasn’t jacked either, I was just fairly lean with avg levels of muscle mass

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Being on TRT is a very different argument, IMO. However when not on TRT, why take the risks that you speak of, for something you can do naturally without the risk? If you want to talk about the risks and dangers of AAS, which I fully appreciate your preaching of, then wouldn’t you only want to take that risk once you can’t achieve what you want naturally?

You are also a very, very unique individual and not like most. I can’t tell you how many buddies I have that have run gear, had great physiques while on, but once coming off and not being as serious with the gym, now look like they’ve never lifted a weight in their life. They should be reserved for people who have truly dedicated years to the gym and will continue that dedicated. Not just get in shape then casually lift a couple times a week.

Not exactly, there’s a middle ground, a certain level of hedonism within life that… while perhaps not “okay” or “acceptable” that I tend to abide by.

Whilst I may not cycle (say 4-600mg weekly, I don’t delve that high) I do use a hormonal equivalent above what one would produce naturally, partially for recreation and partially for legitimate therapeutic effect. There are def certain risks associated here… however I look at it from a quality of life perspective, and thus I don’t agree with the notion of one having to eek out whatever they can naturally before using gear

If someone knows what they’re doing and wants to use gear within reason… ehhhh… people do far worse (not an excuse, just an observation)

That being there should be a level of dedication to the gym before one decides to use. As if you come off and just stop training as you specified earlier, you can lose a lot of what you’ve originally worked so hard for

Again, I totally agree with you pertaining to a unique individual as yourself. You’re not like 99% of people coming on here looking for advice though. Many aren’t on TRT, many want to run larger doses than you, and no one understands the risks quite like you do. I’m speaking more generally. So I don’t disagree, but in general, I personally don’t think someone should take the risks associated with AAS for something that can be reached naturally. It took me almost 10 years to convince myself to run Test. I probably could have added a bit more size naturally, so I wouldn’t say I was at my absolute max. But in general, being close, and having a well established diet and exercise routine is crucial.

There’s several guys who post about their second or third cycles and look like they’ve never run any gear and barely lift. That’s the kind of shit I can’t fathom. All the risk, and none of the reward.

I agree with this, and I don’t understand how some can look like the average joe when having just gotten off 500mg tren 500mg test 500mg EQ, winny etc

I could use that shit and just sit on my ass… I’d still look better than they do (granted there’s a genetic element there, I don’t have good genetics at all, however I am broad/stocky), it doesn’t take much muscle mass on my frame to look not half bad, and say I use that and gain 5-10lbs of lbm without exercising (literature states this is def possible), I’d look like a very experienced gymrat

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why should steroids be only reserved for those dedicated to the gym? Ppl should be allowed to make their own choices and use however they want whenever they want as long as they know what theyre doing and if they dont who gives a shit they probably are ok with dying an early death anyways. And this whole your first cycle should only be test is bullshit as well why should it only be test what does cycle 1 to cycle 2 or 3 change your body can either handle it or cant handle it its not like your bodys like omg deca is too much for me you must take test first only and than you i will be able to survive. You guys on here are all self righteous and high and mighty man just say yes or no to the questions and give recommended dosages dont say do you know what your doing are you sure??? yes motherfucker im sure

Your ignorance is frightening. Never assume people don’t care about dying early. Most just don’t understand the actual risks involved going down this path. Assuming that they all do, and don’t mind premature death is not helpful.

Furthermore, waiting until reaching genetic natural potential is my belief because I personally do not believe the risks involved are worth doing something you can do naturally. Maybe the risk is worth that to you, but I truly believe everyone should have a solid foundation in exercise and nutrition before taking such risks. That’s a personal belief.

Test Only for a first cycle? You know why that’s recommended , don’t you? Clearly, again, you just want to continue spewing nonsense. If you go run Test and Deca, and start having side effects, which one causes those sides? I’ll wait for your answer… not to mention, your body is only going to grow so much on a cycle, why go overkill with additional gear when most folks can get satisfactory results on just test?

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satisfactory?!? HAAAA i laugh at satisfactory bro, i live in the house of extreme gains and sick shreds i dont play satisfactory. Who cares which one gave you the side effects combat them both and move on test on cycles are a WASTE and for scared raw hot dogs (weiners). If your scared of side effects than youre just scared all together

Respectfully disagree and I believe this to be a phrase AAS users bombastically broadcast in hope of gaining respect among the natty community. Unless empirically measured and rigorously tested, it is rather hearsay to regurgitate sayings such as this as one would have to try a myriad training philosophies and dietary strategies coupled with (natty) supplements across a broad time continuum to achieve this genetic limit. It’s simply ridiculous, silly, and egotistical.

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I’d have to disagree. I got some pretty good gains from just Test. But you’re from the house if mad gainzzz and sick shredzzzz. Keep pumpin that 1g of Tren doggy!

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learn the language dog

Nothing to do with respect, and it’s personal belief, there’s not necessarily a right or wrong answer. I think you took that phrase WAY too literal. You’re advising a guy whose not be in a gym AT ALL and has a poor diet to jump on AAS?

Although not the absolute most scientific end all be all… I was a 24 on the FFMI scale naturally. I spent years relatively stagnant, trying countless different training methods, diet changes, etc. Was I at my ABSOLUTE max? Of course not. But had I extensively exhausted my options and tried everything I could to continue getting decent gains, without success? Yes. So I decided I would take the risks. But telling someone who does not work out, to go ahead and start a cycle is irresponsible and in no way helpful.

Maybe you’re right about some folks… but I have nothing to gain by attempting to get respect among the natty community. In fact, this is a pharma Page, so the majority of folks here are not natty…

Again, in my opinion, if you’re going to take the risks of AAS use, why would you use them for something you can obtain NATURALLY? I personally do not think it’s worth the risk. Especially for someone who has not been in the gym at all lately or eating well.

I suppose every obese man should get off the couch, start injecting, and get swole.