T Nation

Think About It...

I realized after arguing with someone on the Internet today, and realizing all of the Blessings that I have…

That with every Generation…the best, brightest and certainly the bravest are often off fighting Wars…

Let’s discuss…there are no “right” or “wrong” replies…,

But I do have a “challenge” for my “Nation” friends. Let’s discuss our Brothers, Sisters, Husbands, Wives, Daughters and Sons WITHOUT using the words:


ANY political reference at all… (we have a section for that…)

(Perhaps the Mods can help out?)

Let’s see what happens…


I’ll start…

Thank you

You do what you are called to do, with poor pay, leaving loved ones at Home, and often with the attitude “It’s my duty…”

Thank you

That despite being in the middle of people who hate you and what you stand for, you continue on…

And remember that if you come home in a Flag Draped coffin we are angry because your Light is no longer with us…

Anyway…give it a try guys. Hopefully the Mods will keep the thread the tone it was meant to have.

Save the Politics for the “Political Forum”…


Sorry bro, but I tried to join the navy. They said one of my plea arrangements constituted a guilty conviction and that brought me over the line in terms of legal record to enlist, so I cannot say I agree our best and brightest are off fighting.

Not only did it take 2 trips to M.E.P.S. to determine this, but I also pleaded guilty to a posession of marijuana charge at the recommendation of my recruiter that a conviction would not affect my entering the military. If I had taken the first offender program, it would have been expunged and I would be in the military today.

Did I mention it was 1/8 a gram of marijuana while I was in college?

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I feel fucking bad for them. War sucks. Killing people sucks. Friends dying sucks. Getting killed sucks. It pretty much all adds up to shitty bullshit.

I feel extremely lucky that such amazing people would fight and die for the values I hold dear. May all who made the ultimate sacrifice rest in peace – everyone else stay safe.

I have my own opinions, but I want to hear it from the troops themselves: I would like to hear from those who put their lives on the line – what makes it worthwhile to make the ultimate sacrifice?

Yes sir, our military. Especially during this war, as (trying to stay non political) it’s not like the USA vs Japan, USA vs Germany, or even North USA vs South USA, etc. It’s the most undefined war our country has ever fought, and that’s the war on terrorism in general. It’s sorta the ‘unknown’ enemy, as you never know who in that country is on your side and who isn’t.

Nothing but respect for those men and women. They fight every single day for this country and its values, and it’s our values at their best.

Whatever you believe the ‘real’ reason for our war is, the truth is, NO ONE is signing up to kill and possibly die for oil, or money. They sign up because there is something going on over here or over there that they believe in. People in the military have guts and bravery rarely seen in this day and age.

The most this has ever personally affected me, outside of hearing my grandpa’s old war stories, etc, was a friend of mine. A pro wrestling promoter that I had worked for for about 2 years and become very close friends with at the time. We were scheduled to wrestle each other the night the war started. He was a veteran of the Persian Gulf War.

I remember showing up, walking into the locker room in Cleveland and seeing him sitting there, shaking and just staring off into space. And this is a guy I once wrestled in barbed wire (my one foray into ‘hardcore wrestling’), and have seen stabbed with glass, cut open, and lit on fire on at least 4 seperate occassions. He’s been shot 3 times in his life, and grew up in inner city Detroit. And I’ve NEVER seen him look like this.

The ref for our match, a mutual friend, came up and told me what was up. I went and sat down and talked to him. We talked for over an hour about the Gulf War, and how after he could no longer do field duty, his job was to send the bodies back with the flags on them, exactly like the pic above.

He cried, a lot. I hugged him, and we talked. He said all he could think about was shipping those bodies back home. 4 were the guys he was trained with, and very close to, and how almost ten years later it was something that he thought about at least once a day every day of his life.

And that night, ladies and gentlemen, I took easily the worst ass kicking I’ve ever had in my life. And I’ve been in a lot of legit fights in my day, grew up in Chitown, and been through enough shit in pro wrestling to consider myself ‘tough’. Nothing I’ve ever been through compared to those 12 minutes. He beat me like I killed someone he loved.

Then we got to the back, and he came up to me, thanked me for the match (lil inside wrestling info there…pretty standard), and then started crying again. I laughed, or tried to, and said it was okay. He apologized, and said, “Gavin, I had to do that. I hope you undertand.” After the stories about shipping his dead friends who had fought along with him for our country and freedom, as well as the freedom of an oppressed people in a foreign land, I did.


In a time where it seems that everybody is selfish and out for themselves, that people are complacent and apathetic…I am more than overwhelmed by the sacrifices of our service men and women.

I cannot imagine living in such conditions and in such a tragic place. Fighting for…well, nothing that can justify it to a heart. Not to mine. I’m nothing but grateful.

This is a good thread Mufasa, because people should think about it more often. While they swig beer and put down a tank full of buffalo wings, or while they complain in their cubicles about some meaningless crap. A man is getting shot at or blown up for this country.

Next month my brother in law will join the ranks. He’s nearly 40 years old and he will be shipped out to Iraq. If I were my sister I don’t know how I would cope. Just as I don’t know how anybody does.

Okay, I’m getting all Buffalo Springfield now, besides … I’m against protesting but I don’t know how to show it. scratches chin

Great stuff, guys!

Look…I KNOW its hard to “suppress” your Political views when you discuss Wars…but this is about the Warriors…and nothing else.

As someone said, you would be surprised at how many of these young Sons and Daughters go to War with the idea of helping another People…

Naive? Perhaps…

But that’s where their Heart is…


[quote]Mufasa wrote:

Naive? Perhaps…

But that’s where their Heart is…


My brother enlisted at a time when most people were dodging the draft. He thought it was noble to fight for freedom. I thought he was crazy.

Eighteen months later, he was killed in a helicopter crash in VietNam.

I know he truly believed that he was a warrior for democracy, but I just can’t let go of my anger, and probably never will.

I have nothing but support for our soldiers and I hope for their safety. They are not the ones who choose to go to war.

Our leaders on the other hand…

This song helps me remember why I joined sometimes when things are shittiest.

“American Soldier” by Toby Keith

I’m just trying to be a father,
Raise a daughter and a son,
Be a lover to their mother,
Everything to everyone.
Up and at 'em bright and early,
I’m all business in my suit,
Yeah, I’m dressed for success from my head down to my boots,
I don’t do it for money, there’s still bills that I can’t pay,
I don’t do it for the glory, I just do it anyway,
Providing for our future’s my responsibility,
Yeah I’m real good under pressure, being all that I can be,
And I can’t call in sick on Mondays when the weekends been to strong,
I just work straight through the holidays,
And sometimes all night long.
You can bet that I stand ready when the wolf growls at the door,
Hey, I’m solid, hey I’m steady, hey I’m true down to the core,
And I will always do my duty, no matter what the price,
I’ve counted up the cost, I know the sacrifice,
Oh, and I don’t want to die for you,
But if dying’s asked of me,
I’ll bear that cross with an honor,
'Cause freedom don’t come free.
I’m an American soldier, an American,
Beside my brothers and my sisters I will proudly take a stand,
When liberty’s in jeopardy I will always do what’s right,
I’m out here on the front lines, so sleep in peace tonight.
American soldier, I’m an American,
An American,
An American Soldier

It takes real balls to join up in a time of war.

No matter what i think about the circumstances, or who is involved, i have nothing but respect for the men and women serving over there or anywhere. I can act tough because i get a PR on bench, that is nothing compared to the courage and fortitude that it takes to say that you will go over and fight for your country, God bless them all, and may they return safe.