T Nation

Things Happen for a Reason!

wait this guy tells everyone over a BLOG that he’s gonna kill himself?? Now I guess its good to save him…kinda. I’m guessing he is more likely to try this again, in which case he would be putting his kid through hell all over again. Who the hell posts a blog that they are gonna kill themselves anyway? That’s just sad. That’s begging for attention.
Well anyway I hope he is the miracle turn around type and that this near death gives him a swift kick in the ass and he pulls his life together. He owes it to his kid after putting’em through this to turn his life around.

Way to ruin a good plan.

Everyone has an interesting opinion.

All my life I’ve witnessed “Divine Intervention”…and I’m NOT a religious person at all. I think it’s how God shows himself to me–letting me know that he is there controlling the odds.

Yeah, I know, when one person lives another dies—it sucks! But to say that there is NOTHING out there controlling things–it’s pretty obvious to me that there is.

Thanks guys for responding–I was interested in knowing what everyone’s opinion was. You guys are Great!

I’m with you on this one MJ. Too many things have happened in my life and my loved ones’ lives for me to think otherwise. Nonbelievers should also keep in mind that not everything that happens for a reason is a good thing. I think that a lot of bad things happen in order for something good to happen further down the road that was a direct or indirect result of the bad that happened.

Then again, maybe things that happen for a reason only happen to people with faith. I can’t imagine going through life without faith.

DB

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
wait this guy tells everyone over a BLOG that he’s gonna kill himself?? Now I guess its good to save him…kinda. I’m guessing he is more likely to try this again, in which case he would be putting his kid through hell all over again. Who the hell posts a blog that they are gonna kill themselves anyway? That’s just sad. That’s begging for attention.
Well anyway I hope he is the miracle turn around type and that this near death gives him a swift kick in the ass and he pulls his life together. He owes it to his kid after putting’em through this to turn his life around.[/quote]

Actually, a suicide note is a CRY FOR HELP! Yes, a cry for attention, but in a different sort of way!

I don’t think anything happens for a reason. Enough stuff happens everyday to every person, that there are bound to be neat coincidences. But in the end, if you step back and look at it, life is a big ball of random crap.

People look for things like this to make them feel better about the uncertainty inherent in life. Two hundred years from now no one will remember this pointless coincidence or it’s results. Everyone involved will be dead. Some of us will pass some DNA to the next generation. End of story. We are like cockroaches only with opposable thumbs and speech. Do you think cockroaches run around blaming fate on stuff?

Cockroach 1: man, did you hear about Harry getting stepped on?

Cockroach 2: yeah horrible news.

Cockroach 1: well, you know everything happens for a reason.

It sounds just as stupid when people say it.

[quote]El_Animal wrote:
I’ve ALWAYS believed all things happen for a reason. Some are more apparent than others. To those that don’t believe, try looking a little harder - or just don’t believe. I could care less.[/quote]

I tell ya buddy, I’d sure like to believe, but some things hurt so damn bad there couldn’t possibly be a reason for them. I guess pain could be the way He teaches us the lessons that we really need to learn, but I wish there was another way.

[quote]maryjane wrote:

Actually, a suicide note is a CRY FOR HELP! Yes, a cry for attention, but in a different sort of way![/quote]

I agree with you there MJ. I’ve had a really close friend try something stupid before which made me run out of the house to his place at like 3am. But he called and confessed what he was gonna do, and we ended up helping him through it.
Just seemed funny that the new suicide note is a blog. Haha what isn’t the internet good for these days?

[quote]
Then again, maybe things that happen for a reason only happen to people with faith. I can’t imagine going through life without faith.

DB[/quote]

I’m sure those are dying of starvation in Africa have faith … shame its not doing them any good.

Its like when Footballers (or whoever) say “I’d just like to thank god for winning the championships and giving me strength” - so what your saying is God what cheering your team on? That he gave you more strength to win than the other guy who wanted it just as bad or more? Sorry, I dont buy that.

Just because something bizarre happens doesnt make it fate. Just because we dont understand something doesnt make it supernatural. Is winning the lottery fate? Or is it just to do with probability?

[quote]helga wrote:
I believe that things happen.

That is about it.

Actually, I believe that the things that happen are a direct result of the decisions and attitudes of the people involved in the situation and there is no external control or reason at all.

I believe that is the way it is, and I believe that is the way it should be.

[/quote]

I second that emotion. We are all entitled to our own version of reality and it’s corresponding belief system. We can’t change the facts, but we can change and control our attitudes toward whatever gets us through life.

My life has been like one big poker game. I’ve been dealt some aces and a lot of shitty hands. And I’ve been known to cheat on occasion :wink:

[quote]Neebone wrote:

I’m sure those are dying of starvation in Africa have faith … shame its not doing them any good.

[/quote]

As I said before, don’t look at injustice or tragedy and conclude there is no God, or that He is not in control.

We see things from such a small human perspective. God is eternal and sees the end from the beginning. Also, humans were created to be eternal. God not only sees all the earthly consequences, but all the eternal consequences of each action.

The most important thing to remember is that it is not about us, it is about Him and His glory. And we cannot question that or complain about it because He is God and we are not. The book of Romans, chapter 9 explains God’s sovereignty very clearly (as does the whole Bible).

[quote]Neebone wrote:

Then again, maybe things that happen for a reason only happen to people with faith. I can’t imagine going through life without faith.

DB

I’m sure those are dying of starvation in Africa have faith … shame its not doing them any good.

Its like when Footballers (or whoever) say “I’d just like to thank god for winning the championships and giving me strength” - so what your saying is God what cheering your team on? That he gave you more strength to win than the other guy who wanted it just as bad or more? Sorry, I dont buy that.

Just because something bizarre happens doesnt make it fate. Just because we dont understand something doesnt make it supernatural. Is winning the lottery fate? Or is it just to do with probability?
[/quote]

I’m not sure that I said EVERYTHING happens for a reason. I believe there is more freeplay in the universe than not. Likewise, I don’t think that everything unexpected happens for no reason. I think there are certain things throughout a person’s life that happen due to something extraordinary guiding the events at that particular time and that there is a higher reason for that.

Perhaps your example of starving people in Africa is happening for a larger purpose of bringing feuding populations together to help out others in a time of crisis. Look at the civil war cease fire that came about after the tsunami in SE Asia. Do you deny that that was a good outcome from a horrific tragedy?

As for the sports example, I hate it when athletes thank God for delivering them a victory as if God is concerned enough about the outcome of meaningless sporting events. It isn’t inappropriate, however, to thank God for delivering an athlete safely through a contest and giving them the ability to perform.

DB

[quote]ballin wrote:
maryjane wrote:
I believe things happen for a reason…you?

no.
[/quote]

Agreed. Ive always thought that people who think there are some crazy “reason” why things happen are crazy themselves.

Don’t mean to rain on your parade, but we all live day to day by pure chance.

[quote]maryjane wrote:
I believe things happen for a reason[/quote]

you have no fricking idea … 100% agreement … pay attention kids … thanks MJ

(kick the big rag in the nuts … believe me … there IS a reason)

[quote]BASTARD GUY wrote:
maryjane wrote:
I believe things happen for a reason

you have no fricking idea … 100% agreement … pay attention kids … thanks MJ

(kick the big rag in the nuts … believe me … there IS a reason)[/quote]

I love you Bastard.

[quote]BASTARD GUY wrote:
(kick the big rag in the nuts … believe me … there IS a reason)[/quote]

either that, or he could just check out the new vasectomy thread.

Now, we are starting to talk about theodicy (mentioned on the post about the Book of Job).

So why do bad things happen to good people?
Rousseau had what I think is a quite reasonable answer: bad things happen because of human beings.

If we accept that there is any such thing as free will, constant divine intervention wouldn’t be hospitable to it.

In our natural state, human beings are happy; our powers are equal to our needs. But as we (freely) create a more complicated (and fragile) world, it is unreasonable to expect that God will insulate us from our own designs.

After the Lisbon disaster in 1755, philosophers began to freshly examine theodicy (a term coined by Leibniz for a concept known well before him). It’s much easier, it seems, to understand evil in free human beings; events such as earthquakes, floods, or other natural disasters (“acts of God”) are generally not directly attributable to human intervention. For many, this indicated that nature (and hence God) was inherently inhospitable to human efforts, or at least indifferent to them. Voltaire was especially outraged, and Candide is, to a great extent, a parody of the idea that there is some underlying benevolent force in the Universe.

Rousseau, in a letter to Voltaire, suggested that Lisbon was the result of human beings populating themselves in high concentrations in a particular area, in tall buildings that were susceptible to earthquake. God, as Rousseau pointed out, never commanded them to do so. In fact, according to Rousseau, He crafted us to be happy and blessed. We chose, instead, to create private property, families, and society. Human intellect, if not for the chains it imposes on us, ought to have been lauded as the greatest gift God could give us.

That we misuse it is unfortunate.

[quote]nephorm wrote:
events such as earthquakes, floods, or other natural disasters (“acts of God”) are generally not directly attributable to human intervention. [/quote]

NNNAaaaa–that’s Mother Nature, and she’s a Bitch.

Of course they do, every action causes some type of reaction… whether intentional or not.

Do I think things are preordained by some type of unchangeable fate? No. If they were there would be no reason for free will to exist, and I firmly believe that I have the ability to direct my own life in whatever manner I chose.

[quote]sic wrote:
Of course they do, every action causes some type of reaction… whether intentional or not.

Do I think things are preordained by some type of unchangeable fate? No. If they were there would be no reason for free will to exist…[/quote]

And no reason to live because what good is having a life if it is being controlled\guided to some preordained, inevitable end?

Do I think things happen for a reason? I don’t know; if I go outside and get struck by lightning tomorrow or wake up with a tumor it was just my time to go. I’m not totally dismissing the fact that there could be a reason, even though I wouldn’t like to believe it.

I think fate is used by humans to soothe their sense of complancency in their reality; I find it hard to believe that there’s a reason anyone would get Ebola or some other terrible disease. It’s just nature; there’s not some divine or cosmic reason for some zebra getting killed by a lion, it was in “x” place at “y” time which resulted in “z” consequence. How come this can’t ring true for humans?

I think fate is just a “spiffy” way of looking at a singular truth:

Shit happens.

Always has, always will.

/end rant.