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Thib Results: Poliquin's Insulin Protocol

I had my biosignature done 2 weeks ago. For those of you who don’t know, body signature is a system developed by Coach Poliquin. It uses a 12-skinfold body fat test to calculate body composition.

Depending on where you store your fat and the ratio between different folds, it can establish which of your hormones are out of whack and then recommend a supplement protocol to cure the problem.

Is it working? So far a resounding HELL YEAH!

For my initial test I was at 7.1% body fat. But most of my fat was stored in my back and my supra-iliac measure was also elevated. Both indicate insulin resistance.

My measures were:

WEEK 1:
Chin: 3.9mm
Cheek: 7.2mm
Pecs: 3mm
Triceps: 2.7mm
Subscap: 15.8mm!!!
Midaxilary: 3.8mm
Supra-iliac: 6.5mm
Abdomen: 5.3mm
Knee: 5.9mm
Calf: 2.3mm
Quads: 3.8mm
Hams: 6mm

My measures, after 1 week on the insulin resistance protocol were:

WEEK 2
Chin: 3.9mm (same)
Cheek: 7.2mm (same)
Pecs: 3.1mm (+0.1)
Triceps: 2.5mm (-0.2)
Subscap: 11.6mm (-4.2)
Midaxilary: 3.3mm (-0.5)
Supra-iliac: 5.4mm (-1.1)
Abdomen: 4.7mm (-0.6)
Knee: 6.1mm (+0.2)
Calf: 2.1mm (-0.2)
Quads: 3.8mm (same)
Hams: 6mm (same)

And this comes down to a body fat percentage of 5.1%. A 2% drop in 1 weeks, while already being lean.

And I lost a combined 5.3mm on my insulin resistance sites which indicate that the protocol is working great so far.

The protocol for insulin resistance is:

Fenuplex: 2 caps per meal
Insulinomics: 2 caps per meal
Ultra HCL 3.0: 2 caps per meal (for me)
High doses of fish oil (I use 9-12 caps of Flameout)

I also use:
Phosphatidylserine: 320mg post-workout and with supper
Glycine: 5g per meal
Glutamine: 10g per meal (to counter the acidity of the protein foods)

On top of:
Power Drive: 1 scoop post-workout
Spike: 1 tablet pre-workout
Surge Recovery: 1-2 scoops post-workout
Surge Workout Fuel: 1 scoop pre/during workout

NOTE: you can buy the products necessary for the insulin resistance protocol from Coach Poliquin’s website at: www.charlespoliquin.net

Thanks for the info.
Great result!
Dr.Tim

Congratulations man well done :slight_smile:
How long do you stay on the insulin protocall ??
As in do you expect MORE drops ?
Also now you know WHY do you think it will be harder to gain BACK fat now that the problem is fixed…

Coach Thib,
I am also similarly ‘fat concentrated’ (i.e insulin resistant and also come from a former ‘fatboy background’(esp. suprailliac) and just received myfenuplex & insulinonmics and have noticed a slight difference in the past few days (been doing it since…tuesday maybe?, haven’t tested yet however). a few questions:

do you take em, before or during a meal? i’ve been trying to take them slightly before and one thing i’ve noticed is i am ‘fuller’ faster. my theory is the following; the insulin response is much less and this is essentially a disaster, huge insulin response makes you stay hungry;
how much Flameout do you use per meal? you don’t find any nausea problems with this?

do you take the fenuplex with your post workout shake? (this i found recommended in the subscriber articles on his site)
i was/am also taking tribulus, as i am in a strength phase…is this a problem?

for the record my entire supplement protocol is:
bcaas ~15 g before, ~15 g after workout
creatine ~5 g during, ~ 5 g after
Surge 1/2 serving during, 1/2 serving after
Spike either a tab or drink pre workout
ZMA pre bed
Z-12 pre bed (recent addition)
the above insulin stuff, 1 cap insulinomics, 2 fenuplex with meals…with Flameout, i take 6-8 caps per night due to nausea
tribulus (@ night, i do this since Poliquin said its a relaxant…should i spread it out)

my main question is about proper use of the insulin supps (i just included my entire protocol just so you could make sure i wasn’t doing anything disastrous) since there isn’t a ‘ton’ of specific info on the Poliquin site (even the subscriber info) nor his books; moreover, should i take it with any feeding or just large meals (i tend to snack between meals)…thanks a lot for all your help, i realize the above may seem incoherent, just trying to get all my information across.

[quote]RebelSell wrote:
how much Flameout do you use per meal? you don’t find any nausea problems with this? [/quote]

3 caps 3-4 times a day… no nausea at all. Heck, this is not a very high dose of fish oil for me. I’ve used up to 60g per day in the past!

[quote]RebelSell wrote:
do you take the fenuplex with your post workout shake? (this i found recommended in the subscriber articles on his site) [/quote]

Yes, I take Fenuplex and Insulinomics every time nutrients enter my mouth! I think that they are especially important with the post-workout meal since this is the only one where I have carbs.

[quote]RebelSell wrote:
i was/am also taking tribulus, as i am in a strength phase…is this a problem?[/quote]

Probably not. But personally I don’t like to take too many herbal supplements at once, especially not those that target hormonal responses/production. I find it best to focus on restoring proper hormonal balance one hormone at a time.

Thanks so much for all your help.
With the Flameout, taking it with meals will help reduce the nausea I assume (I think it’s the CLA) (i assume you take with them to reduce the insulin response?). The nausea is not usually a problem with strength work, but I do a lot of conditioning and wrestling, and I found when I took fish oil too close to practice I’d get nauseous (I have a pretty rough gag reflex, too many pre-training BCAAs do the same as well)

Perhaps I will cut out the tribulus to really see how this works, per se… (Again, it’s sort of an experiment; I am mainly curious at how it works, a lot for when I have to make weight in season)…thanks again CT, all your advice and expertise is terrific.

Why does this not convince me, I’m very sceptical of this biosignature but also very intrigued. Why hasn’t biosignature in the journals?

[quote]superscience wrote:
Why does this not convince me, I’m very sceptical of this biosignature but also very intrigued. Why hasn’t biosignature in the journals?[/quote]

It’s not ‘‘directly’’ in scientific journal. BUT you can find hundreds of studies establishing a link between hormonal imbalances and site-specific fat storage.

But the biosignature model was designed after years and years of Coach Poliquin registering data with his thousands of clients. Nobody is more serious than him about measuring and testing.

[quote]superscience wrote:
Why does this not convince me, I’m very sceptical of this biosignature but also very intrigued. Why hasn’t biosignature in the journals?[/quote]

Plus I feel that a lot of peoples rely on scientific literature too much. YES science is important. YES I use studies to further my concepts and methods. BUT when it comes to performance training and high level body composition changes scientific literature is often 5-10 years behind the top coaches.

For example until the mid 80s, it was the position of the American Medical Association (established via a review of scientific studies) that steroids and testosterone DID NOT increase muscle mass and strength. Meanwhile bodybuilders and powerlifters were getting huge and strong using this ineffective products :slight_smile:

thib great thread,
i dont know where i d be without my bottle of fish oil & hcl.

question if you dont mind…
whats the procedure for adding the ten grams of glycine & glutamine to meals… sprinkle it on??? :smiley:

also how do you find DIM as a product?i just ordered some to try it out.

insulinomics kicks arse!!!pity i ran out of it :smiley:

[quote]curranni wrote:
thib great thread,
i dont know where i d be without my bottle of fish oil & hcl.

question if you dont mind…
whats the procedure for adding the ten grams of glycine & glutamine to meals… sprinkle it on??? :smiley:

also how do you find DIM as a product?i just ordered some to try it out.

insulinomics kicks arse!!!pity i ran out of it :D[/quote]

I drink the glycine and glutamine in a glass of water. I normally mix it in with crystal light otherwise it tastes pretty bad!

I never used DIM because I have no need for estrogen control; I’m basically devoid of it since my triceps, quads and chest skin fold are now all under 3mm.

BTW I’m getting my next measure done friday. I have quite a lot of pressure since last week I lost 2% body fat. But I obviously cannot keep losing fat at that pace otherwise I’ll be -10% body fat in 6 weeks :slight_smile:

lousy.
thanks.
my pec skinfolds went up lately.
having no clients i turned to bar work while i build up some business. between the stress of the bar,the lat nights,less quality in my food,i went up all over.its a bit of a balls.
i m hoping a course of DIM combined with ZINC, magnesium and the glycine will help.
crystal light.
we dont have that over here i ll try and find something to dump it in that wont raise my insulin.
thanks thib.

Hi CT,

I Know if was obvious in you situation, but how do determine if a skinfold is high? Should they be fairly equal across the board? I always thought some where naturally higher, otherwise you’d just need 1 site tests, so how do you tell if a measurement is simply higher because it should be, or high due to hormonal imbalance.

yeah, I’m curious as to how long you’ll stay on this protocol–what defines when you’re finished? Is it skinfold in line with the rest of the body, or is there another end pt.? And do you think you’ll have to repeat the protocol from time to time to ‘reset’ your balance?

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
yeah, I’m curious as to how long you’ll stay on this protocol–what defines when you’re finished? Is it skinfold in line with the rest of the body, or is there another end pt.? And do you think you’ll have to repeat the protocol from time to time to ‘reset’ your balance?[/quote]

Each protocol has its own duration. For this one (fenugreek/insulinomics) I’ll stay on it for 6 weeks. Some protocols call for changing supplements every 21 days, others last longer than 6 weeks.

[quote]cal wrote:
Hi CT,

I Know if was obvious in you situation, but how do determine if a skinfold is high? Should they be fairly equal across the board? I always thought some where naturally higher, otherwise you’d just need 1 site tests, so how do you tell if a measurement is simply higher because it should be, or high due to hormonal imbalance.[/quote]

There is a certain ratio for each fold. The triceps is the baseline for most. But I really can’t tell you about it since it is Charles’ system. If you want to learn about it you’ll have to go to one of his biosignature seminars.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
superscience wrote:
Why does this not convince me, I’m very sceptical of this biosignature but also very intrigued. Why hasn’t biosignature in the journals?

Plus I feel that a lot of peoples rely on scientific literature too much. YES science is important. YES I use studies to further my concepts and methods. BUT when it comes to performance training and high level body composition changes scientific literature is often 5-10 years behind the top coaches.

For example until the mid 80s, it was the position of the American Medical Association (established via a review of scientific studies) that steroids and testosterone DID NOT increase muscle mass and strength. Meanwhile bodybuilders and powerlifters were getting huge and strong using this ineffective products :)[/quote]

Although I think Poliquin is an amazing coach I find some of his stuff, personally, very hard to believe but maybe that’s just my cynical nature. I know a guy who has done a lot of his internships and he swears by his methods and gets amazing results so he must be good.

I tend to agree with what your saying here and thanks for the reply and keep up the excellent work.

I just had my week 3 measures done… I’m almost afraid of posting them. To be honest the end figure almost look unrealistic.

So a word of warning is necessary:

  • The measures were down by the same trainer, who has over 15 years of the in the trenches practice and at least 10 000 body fat tests to his credit. He was trained by coach Poliquin who is stickler for accurate and VERY strict measures.

  • The body does have 3% of ‘‘vital’’ body fat that is not included in the fat measured via calipers.

  • I have alway been 100% honest and would not lie about something like this; I have nothing to prove anymore and nothing to gain from this.

So here is a week by week progression.

WEEK 1:
Chin: 3.9mm
Cheek: 7.2mm
Pecs: 3mm
Triceps: 2.7mm
Subscap: 15.8mm!!!
Midaxilary: 3.8mm
Supra-iliac: 6.5mm
Abdomen: 5.3mm
Knee: 5.9mm
Calf: 2.3mm
Quads: 3.8mm
Hams: 6mm

My measures, after 1 week on the insulin resistance protocol were:

WEEK 2
Chin: 3.9mm (same)
Cheek: 7.2mm (same)
Pecs: 3.1mm (+0.1)
Triceps: 2.5mm (-0.2)
Subscap: 11.6mm (-4.2)
Midaxilary: 3.3mm (-0.5)
Supra-iliac: 5.4mm (-1.1)
Abdomen: 4.7mm (-0.6)
Knee: 6.1mm (+0.2)
Calf: 2.1mm (-0.2)
Quads: 3.8mm (same)
Hams: 6mm (same)

After two weeks (today):

WEEK 3
Chin: 3.7mm (-0.2)
Cheek: 5.8mm (-1.4)
Pecs: 3.0mm (-0.1)
Triceps: 2.4mm (-0.1)
Subscap: 9.9mm (-1.7)
Midaxilary: 3.0mm (-0.3)
Supra-iliac: 4.6mm (-0.8)
Abdomen: 4.5mm (-0.2)
Knee: 5.0mm (-0.2)
Calf: 2.2mm (+0.1)
Quads: 3.8mm (same)
Hams: 5.9mm (-0.1)

The end result is a subcutaneous bodyfat level of 2.4%!!! Down from 5.1% last week and 7.1% from the starting point.

Obviously the fat will not continue to drop at this pace otherwise I’ll be at -10% in 6 weeks! From now on I expect it to drop by 0.2-0.4% per week. The insulin sites are still the only problem areas, but they are steadily improving.

Do you have any recent pics, or do you plan on posting any when you are done? Looks like you are getting nice and lean by the numbers. Good job!

[quote]beaul wrote:
Do you have any recent pics, or do you plan on posting any when you are done? Looks like you are getting nice and lean by the numbers. Good job![/quote]

The only time I’ve been as lean was prior to the last time I competed (look for the first pic in my ‘‘First person’’ article).

I will probably take pics at the end of the process.