T Nation

These Percentages for 5/3/1?


It is the second template which Jim showed in his 5/3/1 book.
Who tried it and can say something about his experience with it?

Are you asking us if we follow 5/3/1?

[quote]JFG wrote:
Are you asking us if we follow 5/3/1?[/quote]
No, he’s asking if anyone has used the 5% jump per set versus the 10%

OP do you actually train from time to time ?

It’s the first template I tried when I decided to start competing and I stuck with it for almost two years. This is a great place to start your 5/3/1 experience, or if you’ve been using another template and starting to plateau.

I only switched to the 65/75/85 (5’s), 70/80/90 (3’s) template a cycle ago. The template I’m using now makes the work sets feel more like warm-up sets for the attempted PR set since they start lower and make bigger jumps. I’m also doing the boring but big volume work to go with it, so it’s valuable for me to save a little energy for those sets. With lower volume stuff, I’d probably have stuck with the program you have posted.

With a lower training max (I’m a girl, but any raw 181-220lb male squatting less than 400-450 and deadlifting under 600 falls in the “low” training max category), the template you have posted allows you to work with slightly tougher numbers for working sets–which is what anyone that’s not very strong needs. It’s definitely what I needed at the time.

I guess I could have kept this simple and just said the template you have works without all of the background info. With an appropriate training max, any of the templates will work well, so it’s really about your goals and how you see the templates fitting into what you need.

[quote]METAL VIPER wrote:

[quote]JFG wrote:
Are you asking us if we follow 5/3/1?[/quote]
No, he’s asking if anyone has used the 5% jump per set versus the 10%
[/quote]

Oh.

I made my spreadsheet so long ago, I had forgotten that…

I just look at the numbers, load the bar, if I get a weird number, I round up, rinse, repeat.

I guess I’m just weird. I picked a program, did a cycle, liked it, continued…

Most importantly, my knees like it.

[quote]John_Meadows_Fan wrote:
It is the second template which Jim showed in his 5/3/1 book.
Who tried it and can say something about his experience with it?

[/quote]

Wow I’ve never read that before. I actually did not consider myself to be really doing 5/3/1 BECAUSE I used 5% jumps. 10% jumps “seemed” too much. In fact 5% was a little more than I was used to as I liked to used 10 pound jumps in the bench and 10-15 in the squat. 5% jumps were already pushing my bench jumps to 15 and my squat to 20-25.

So I basically started my training using the following template based on 100% of a true max, or rep based max:

workout 1: 60% x 5; 65% x 5; 70% x 5; 75% x 5; something extra option
workoout 2: 65% x 3; 70% x 3; 75% x 3; 80% x 3; something extra option
workout 3: 70% x 2; 75% x 2; 80% x 2; 85% x 2; something extra option

Notice that these percentages would all be 10 points higher if I was basing it off of the 90% training max.

I also did not use the light workout and I had a few other differences. I went beyond the 4 minimal sets probably 2 out of 3 workouts, but 1 out of 3 I only did the minimum, and just 1 assistance exercise. I would go beyond either by ADDING a top weight set to failure, or by adding 2-4 EXTRA sets at the top level, or by adding 1-2 joker sets with 5% jumps.

I liked it because on the 1/3 of the time when I was only going to get in a minimal workout it gave me a little more work at top level.

I was thinking that I might use the 5% jumps for my “hypo” low volume workouts, and use the 10% jump 3 set protocol for my higher volume days. I actually tended to run higher volume days together, like 1 cycle-6 workouts, and then do half a cycle (3 workouts) with the minimum.

Or to maybe alternate, do one cycle with 10% jumps, then do the next one with 5% jumps but without increasing training max, then return to 10% jumps with a higher TM.

Here is another option, based on 90% TM:

Cycle 1
WO 1: 65% x 5; 70% x 5; 75% x 5; 80% x 5
WO 2: 70% x 3; 75% x 3; 80% x 3; 85% x 3
WO 3: 65% x 5; 75% x 3; 85% x 2; 95% x 1

Don’t change TM

Cycle 2
WO 1: 65% x 5; 75% x 5; 85% x 5
WO 2: 70% x 3; 80% x 3; 90% x 3
WO 3: 75% x 5; 85% x 3; 95% x 1-2

Then return to the first one and up TM

Anyway I would say that it is OK if you play around with the ramp as long as the top sets are peaking out at 85, 90, and 95% of TM.

I’ve always done the 10% jumps except for when I occasionally move up to my TM for a set (if I’m feeling good). Run it for 2-4 cycles OP and see how it fares if you haven’t already, certainly won’t make you weaker.

I foud out, that for me the 5% jumps are no problem on Bench and OHP. It feels much more comfortable because the weights are all in a near area. On Squats and Deadlifts I think the 10% jumps are better because you can “save” a little bit for that last big set.
So I think I will combine both templates for my next cycle.

[quote]John_Meadows_Fan wrote:
I foud out, that for me the 5% jumps are no problem on Bench and OHP. It feels much more comfortable because the weights are all in a near area. On Squats and Deadlifts I think the 10% jumps are better because you can “save” a little bit for that last big set.
So I think I will combine both templates for my next cycle. [/quote]

That too. I was going to say that I tried 10% jumps in the squat and it worked (in part because you are also moving bodyweight, so it’s even less than 10% of combined load), but 5% seems best in the bench. But I think you adapt do different things. At one point I did multiple triples at 80-85% (true max) every 2-3 days, and I got to the point where I did not even use any ramp, just put on the work weight and started.

For me, it is important to define a “minimal” workout, the least that I will get through, and 3 sets with 10% jumps doesn’t quite cut it.

[quote]mertdawg wrote:

[quote]John_Meadows_Fan wrote:
I foud out, that for me the 5% jumps are no problem on Bench and OHP. It feels much more comfortable because the weights are all in a near area. On Squats and Deadlifts I think the 10% jumps are better because you can “save” a little bit for that last big set.
So I think I will combine both templates for my next cycle. [/quote]

That too. I was going to say that I tried 10% jumps in the squat and it worked (in part because you are also moving bodyweight, so it’s even less than 10% of combined load), but 5% seems best in the bench. But I think you adapt do different things. At one point I did multiple triples at 80-85% (true max) every 2-3 days, and I got to the point where I did not even use any ramp, just put on the work weight and started.

For me, it is important to define a “minimal” workout, the least that I will get through, and 3 sets with 10% jumps doesn’t quite cut it. [/quote]

You are absolutely right. For me it is a little mental game as well. When I bench and I know, that the weight of all 3 sets is hard, than I have a different mindset as if I know the first two sets will be easy. But on Squats and Deads I give all I can in the last set. So for me it is better to have a bigger gap between the weights on the two biggest lifts.