T Nation

There Will Be Violence

I’ve had a few thoughts I’ve been trying to work out over this election and I think I shall go on the record with them.

Regardless of the outcome, there will be violence. I don’t know the scope of the violence, but at best it will be riots in Detroit, LA, ect. Here’s why:

Let us imagine that Obama is not elected. Cries of foul play and stolen elections will be picked up as well as charges of racism. This simple fact will be enough to spark riots in those cities that do nothing but wait around for an excuse to riot.

Now let us assume Obama is elected. Again cries of stolen elections will arise over issues with ACORN, ect. I’m not sure how well this nation’s patriots are going to feel if they become convinced that a socialist has stolen the white house. More likely though I foresee violence as a product of when the masses that saw Obama as a messiah figure who will bring “change” discovers that he’s just a run-of-the-mill politician who is dirty and corrupt. These people will give up on the political process completely.

This is the best case scenario. Deeper violence is possible. Listening to the crowds at McCain campaigns calling Obama a traitor and a terrorist leave us in a sticky situation because it’s hard to make a good argument that he isn’t these things (well, not a terrorist, but a traitor). The level of hate and the idealogical divide between our sides has only been replicated twice in our history.

The first time was the “Revolution of 1800” when New England threatened to secede over a Jefferson victory. The second time was the period leading up to the Civil War. I can’t say for sure what will set everything off, only that I’m very much convinced that the time is coming soon where we’re going to have to pick a side.

mike

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
The first time was the “Revolution of 1800” when New England threatened to secede over a Jefferson victory. The second time was the period leading up to the Civil War. I can’t say for sure what will set everything off, only that I’m very much convinced that the time is coming soon where we’re going to have to pick a side.
mike[/quote]

…or move to another country.

[quote]RebornTN wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
The first time was the “Revolution of 1800” when New England threatened to secede over a Jefferson victory. The second time was the period leading up to the Civil War. I can’t say for sure what will set everything off, only that I’m very much convinced that the time is coming soon where we’re going to have to pick a side.
mike

…or move to another country.[/quote]

Whether you stay and fight, or decide to leave - you are taking up a position in the revolution.

I hate to think in these terms, but it has become increasingly obvious to me that the only way to change the path our nation is on is a full scale revolution.

I have been saying we need a revolution for a couple of weeks now. It is more than a little scary that someone sees the dire future of this nation in the same light that I do.

Im with you Rainjack, this damn blind sheep following Obama is sickening to my stomach.
Im hoping McCain has an Ace up his sleeve.

both parties only care for the elite so i think your election results are the least of your future problems

points towards 50 trillion needed to fulfill medicare and social security entitlements for baby boomers

Nobody except the extremists on both sides will do anything, and if they do anything illegal on a grand scale, they will most likely feel the full force of the federal government.

All the hubbub at these rallies is just talk, disturbing talk, but talk nonetheless. In this day and age, any violence planned against a politician is extremely hard to pull off. Surveillance has advanced significantly in recent decades.

There will be no revolution. For one, the standard of living in this country is too high for widespread unrest. The cost is too high for most people, the benefit too low.

The “stolen vote” issue is a complicated one. The national poll tracking has been quite dramatic over the recent weeks:

I also doubt that McCain has anything up his sleeve.

You are an idiot Mike!

[quote]Demiajax wrote:
Nobody except the extremists on both sides will do anything, and if they do anything illegal on a grand scale, they will most likely feel the full force of the federal government.

All the hubbub at these rallies is just talk, disturbing talk, but talk nonetheless. In this day and age, any violence planned against a politician is extremely hard to pull off. Surveillance has advanced significantly in recent decades.

There will be no revolution. For one, the standard of living in this country is too high for widespread unrest. The cost is too high for most people, the benefit too low.

The “stolen vote” issue is a complicated one. The national poll tracking has been quite dramatic over the recent weeks:

I also doubt that McCain has anything up his sleeve. [/quote]

Please keep rational thoughts and posts to yourself. The Politics forum on T-Nation is reserved for mindless right wing rhetoric, hateful & often libelous statements, and not so thinly veiled racism from all the chickenhawks who reign here from the safety of their office chairs.

[quote]Noodle_Arms wrote:
Demiajax wrote:
Nobody except the extremists on both sides will do anything, and if they do anything illegal on a grand scale, they will most likely feel the full force of the federal government.

All the hubbub at these rallies is just talk, disturbing talk, but talk nonetheless. In this day and age, any violence planned against a politician is extremely hard to pull off. Surveillance has advanced significantly in recent decades.

There will be no revolution. For one, the standard of living in this country is too high for widespread unrest. The cost is too high for most people, the benefit too low.

The “stolen vote” issue is a complicated one. The national poll tracking has been quite dramatic over the recent weeks:

I also doubt that McCain has anything up his sleeve.

Please keep rational thoughts and posts to yourself. The Politics forum on T-Nation is reserved for mindless right wing rhetoric, hateful & often libelous statements, and not so thinly veiled racism from all the chickenhawks who reign here from the safety of their office chairs.
[/quote]

Look, its obvious that our society is falling apart. Trillions for this, trillions for that, states going bankrupt, old revered companies (like GM and Ford) being destroyed. People are angry. Eventually the anger will reach a tipping point and boil over.

Its at that point that our government must become totalitarian, as I’ve said for years. Only an absolute state with crushing power can keep our society from dissolving into warring factions. We will become an outright fascist pseudo-democracy, like Nazi Germany.

And that’s what RJ and Mike are saying we have to fight…

I think mikeyali makes some really good points, but I think the only riot that will occur is the nation-wide riot that will ahppen if Obama is not elected. I don’t think anyone will will get up and out and burn down a liquor store because McCain didn’t win. McCain’s supporters are 80 year old racist white women who think that Obama is an arab, they only go out to play bingo on Sunday night.

[quote]Noodle_Arms wrote:
Demiajax wrote:
Nobody except the extremists on both sides will do anything, and if they do anything illegal on a grand scale, they will most likely feel the full force of the federal government.

All the hubbub at these rallies is just talk, disturbing talk, but talk nonetheless. In this day and age, any violence planned against a politician is extremely hard to pull off. Surveillance has advanced significantly in recent decades.

There will be no revolution. For one, the standard of living in this country is too high for widespread unrest. The cost is too high for most people, the benefit too low.

The “stolen vote” issue is a complicated one. The national poll tracking has been quite dramatic over the recent weeks:

I also doubt that McCain has anything up his sleeve.

Please keep rational thoughts and posts to yourself. The Politics forum on T-Nation is reserved for mindless right wing rhetoric, hateful & often libelous statements, and not so thinly veiled racism from all the chickenhawks who reign here from the safety of their office chairs.
[/quote]

HAHA, there’s a bit too much truth in this. I hope normal people start posting on here and kick the crazies back to the sidelines where they belong.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
RebornTN wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
The first time was the “Revolution of 1800” when New England threatened to secede over a Jefferson victory. The second time was the period leading up to the Civil War. I can’t say for sure what will set everything off, only that I’m very much convinced that the time is coming soon where we’re going to have to pick a side.
mike

…or move to another country.

Whether you stay and fight, or decide to leave - you are taking up a position in the revolution.

I hate to think in these terms, but it has become increasingly obvious to me that the only way to change the path our nation is on is a full scale revolution.

I have been saying we need a revolution for a couple of weeks now. It is more than a little scary that someone sees the dire future of this nation in the same light that I do. [/quote]

There will be no revolution as long as the average American remains sedated with reality television, football, porn and fast food.

I hate to say it Rainjack, but the America you pine for no longer exists.

Demiajax brings up an important point:

“…There will be no revolution. For one, the standard of living in this country is too high for widespread unrest. The cost is too high for most people, the benefit too low…”

Even if there was some form of “unrest”, I doubt that it would occur where most “patriots” live.

Questions (So I don’t misquote you Mike):

  1. What do you see as the nature of the Revolution? Armed and violent? Silent protest? Tax rebellion? Other?

  2. What makes one person a “patriot” and another not? Is it whether they vote for Obama or McCain? Is it belonging to and supporting one particular party? Is it whether one supported the “Surge” or not?

  3. Without going into “The Six Degrees of Barack Obama”; what ISSUES make one candidate a “Socialist” and the other not? Both Obama and McCain voted for the “bailout”; both are suggesting spending billions more, with governmental purchases and control; both have TRILLIONS more is ideas, most often with them all being paid for with tax dollars.

  4. What make one candiate a “Messiah” and one not?

It appears that the last week has seen McCain supporters almost on their knees, PRAYING (yes, “pray” was used) for McCain to “save” them from this “Arab Socialist” who is about to take over “our” Country.

I will agree with Mike on this point. This is working out to be a VERY polarizing election; but mostly for the reasons that people usually become divided: the spreading of mis-information, half-truths, distortions and lies; their own personal prejudices; and the failure to listen to what each other are saying.

To me this is all working out to feel more like “Rosewood”…and not Bunker Hill, Saratoga, or Yorktown.

Mufasa

[quote]skaz05 wrote:
I think mikeyali makes some really good points, but I think the only riot that will occur is the nation-wide riot that will ahppen if Obama is not elected. [/quote]

But if someone is convinced that Obama is a socialist,marxist,Arab,Muslim,terrorist…I think its safe to say that the potential for violence is there. They may even think they are being a “patriot” for doing so…ironic,huh.

You know what? Not only would there be a riot if Obama doesn’t win, but there will be one if he does win, only it won’t be called a riot it will be called a “celebration”.

I fully expect there to be nationwide shenanigans if Obama wins the presidency, by the same people who have threatened to riot if he doesn’t win.

But I really don’t think that any of McCain’s supporters are going to go out and start setting flame to cars because their candidate didn’t win. We all know that McCain’s supporters are all a bunch of morbidly obese, illiterate, lazy, slob, redneck fucktards. they are all so stupid, the wouldn’t even know how to get up off the couch, go outside, and do anything at all! HA!

McCain supporters are all a bunch of fat, stupid, hicks!

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Demiajax brings up an important point:

“…There will be no revolution. For one, the standard of living in this country is too high for widespread unrest. The cost is too high for most people, the benefit too low…”

Even if there was some form of “unrest”, I doubt that it would occur where most “patriots” live.

Questions (So I don’t misquote you Mike):

  1. What do you see as the nature of the Revolution? Armed and violent? Silent protest? Tax rebellion? Other?

  2. What makes one person a “patriot” and another not? Is it whether they vote for Obama or McCain? Is it belonging to and supporting one particular party? Is it whether one supported the “Surge” or not?

  3. Without going into “The Six Degrees of Barack Obama”; what ISSUES make one candidate a “Socialist” and the other not? Both Obama and McCain voted for the “bailout”; both are suggesting spending billions more, with governmental purchases and control; both have TRILLIONS more is ideas, most often with them all being paid for with tax dollars.

  4. What make one candiate a “Messiah” and one not?

It appears that the last week has seen McCain supporters almost on their knees, PRAYING (yes, “pray” was used) for McCain to “save” them from this “Arab Socialist” who is about to take over “our” Country.

I will agree with Mike on this point. This is working out to be a VERY polarizing election; but mostly for the reasons that people usually become divided: the spreading of mis-information, half-truths, distortions and lies; their own personal prejudices; and the failure to listen to what each other are saying.

To me this is all working out to feel more like “Rosewood”…and not Bunker Hill, Saratoga, or Yorktown.

Mufasa[/quote]

Amen. Great post.

People in this forum are losing their fucking minds.

Um…yeah. Unemployment is still comparatively low. Most people have food. Most people have heat. Most people have television. As inept as our government is (and as divisive and polarizing this election is), we’re really not doing too bad. Our standard of living is still high.

There will be no revolution. There will be no widespread riots. A couple extremist malcontents on either side might smash a couple windows. That’s the extent of it.

You can’t keep robbing more and more property from a freedom loving people and expect peace forever. They’ll take their productivity somewhere else (this is what I advocate), or they’ll revolt.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Um…yeah. Unemployment is still comparatively low. Most people have food. Most people have heat. Most people have television. As inept as our government is (and as divisive and polarizing this election is), we’re really not doing too bad. Our standard of living is still high.

There will be no revolution. There will be no widespread riots. A couple extremist malcontents on either side might smash a couple windows. That’s the extent of it.
[/quote]

The notion of a revolution has nothing to do with this presidential election. If Che-Bama wins, I’m sure there will be some pissed off conservatives. If he loses, I am sure that black people in certain areas of the country will be rioting.

The notion of a revolution comes from the systematic raping of the constitution.

McCain is anti-first amendment.

The second amendment is only a shell of its former self

The PATRIOT Act, and the IRS rules that were reinstated as a result of the bailout, RICO laws, War on drugs, etc. have completely eviscerated the 5th amendment.

You have a congress who takes a piss on the constitution every time they pass a spending bill. You have presidents, and presidential candidates fully engaged in wealth redistribution.

I think the last straw for me was the bailout vote. NO ONE wanted this piece of shit bill, but we were told to sit down, shut up, and mind our own business.

Someone tell me how, short of a full blown overthrow, we right the ship, and get back on a proper course for this nation.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Um…yeah. Unemployment is still comparatively low. Most people have food. Most people have heat. Most people have television. As inept as our government is (and as divisive and polarizing this election is), we’re really not doing too bad. Our standard of living is still high.

There will be no revolution. There will be no widespread riots. A couple extremist malcontents on either side might smash a couple windows. That’s the extent of it.

The notion of a revolution has nothing to do with this presidential election. If Che-Bama wins, I’m sure there will be some pissed off conservatives. If he loses, I am sure that black people in certain areas of the country will be rioting.

The notion of a revolution comes from the systematic raping of the constitution.

McCain is anti-first amendment.

The second amendment is only a shell of its former self

The PATRIOT Act, and the IRS rules that were reinstated as a result of the bailout, RICO laws, War on drugs, etc. have completely eviscerated the 5th amendment.

You have a congress who takes a piss on the constitution every time they pass a spending bill. You have presidents, and presidential candidates fully engaged in wealth redistribution.

I think the last straw for me was the bailout vote. NO ONE wanted this piece of shit bill, but we were told to sit down, shut up, and mind our own business.

Someone tell me how, short of a full blown overthrow, we right the ship, and get back on a proper course for this nation.

[/quote]

Everything you say is true. But as long as people are fed, and clothed, and doing relatively ok, I don’t think most people will care enough to do more than grumble about it and criticize.

Revolutions are ABOUT fundamental principles. But they tend not to happen unless people feel like they’re truly suffering and oppressed.