Therajraj: How Do You Anti Government

But the other side didn’t exclude something as removed as gravity?

You have asserted every argument as by the authority of government. Quite directly in most cases.

You have explained that if I accept the authority of the government then the government has rightful authority. Or that’s All I’ve gotten so far.

Your explanation quite literally can be surmised as “the government says so”.

Actually, not according to us law. You are still liable for taxes even if you leave. But again, it’s unfeasible to assume consent if you don’t move a thousand miles away especially when that would only amount to consenting to some other government by your own reasoning. Again, dodge my bullet or you wanted to get shot. It’s not a reasonable demand for non-consent.

Uh, they voted and they didn’t leave. But I agree it’s a stupid argument. It’s supposed to be, it was yours.

When they are old enough to consent, after a period of being in loco parentis.

As long as we agree that in this context consent has absolutely no discernible meaning, I agree.

I don’t follow.

This was the very first thing I wrote:

The authority rests with the people and no one or nothing else.

There’s nothing else to accept. The government was and continue to be empowered by the people. I don’t really know what else to say.

In some cases and for a limited time.

If that collection of people consented to taxation then ya. The fact that most nations have consented to taxation should tell you something.

The Nazi’s seized power in January of 1933 and the election was in March… A whole bunch of people tried to leave too.

How does an American citizen go about withdrawing consent from something tax money is used for, like say the murder of muslims abroad via the Iraq war?

This is not theoretically true in the US. We are not supposed to have mob rule.

You are now explaining what happens, not justifying anything. It isn’t theft because a majority did it? this runs contrary to the consent argument.

Again you assume the right of a government. If I don’t accept government authority then the nation can’t accept anything for me. Quit making statements that assume you are right as pretext.

But the Jews that stayed, they consented to the gas chamber? Alright then.

If you were an adult black man in Apartheid South Africa and paid income taxes, does that mean you consented to the Apartheid state?

Did Nelson Mandela technically support the Apartheid state because he accepted food and water from the state while in prison?

It isn’t mob rule. It rule via representation.

  1. A bunch of people came together in Philidelphia and wrote the Constitution.

  2. The Constitution is empowered by “The People”

  3. “The People” established via the Constitution how to:
    Establish Justice,
    Insure domestic tranquility,
    Provide for the common defense,
    Promote the general welfare, and
    Secure the blessings of Liberty

Via Representation

The justification is that those men entrusted with the authority of the people to establish a government did so via the Constitution, which explicity states what Congress, among other things, can and cannot do.

I assume the right of any people to establish a government that applies to all those within the group.

No, because there was nothing free about the Hilter’s election and without searching, I’m going to go out on a limb and say Murder was still illegal in Germany in the 1930s.

At any rate, this is why I specifically stated my opinion applies specifically to the US because I know fuck all about German politics in the 30s no less.

No. He made it very clear that he was against aparthied and worked to change it.

There’s that money where your mouth is thing again. Notice how much people who were willing to do that through out history garnered so much respect, and in many cases eventually won?

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I’m not even arguing that government is wrong or we shouldn’t ever tax, but you guys are kidding yourselves in this consent nonsense. If there is no reasonable alternative and therefore no decision possible, there is no such thing as consent by definition. For good or bad, there is no such thing as consent in taxation. I think you guys should buck up and admit the emperor has no clothes, and that you prefer him naked. You think theft by taxation is justifiable, and you are doing mental back flips to try to convince yourself it isn’t theft.

I agree, but this goes against the whole if you don’t leave you consent by default logic.

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Nope. You do what my brother in law did.

Expatriate. There is nothing in the law keeping people here.

That’s a viable alternative. There are at least 5 countries that do not have an income tax. That’s why I slipped that Bermuda joke in there.

That is because there are multiple choices. It’s a false pigeon hole to say that leaving is the only choice.

Expatriate or you consent? really?

And you just said Mandela didn’t consent, but he didn’t leave.

He spent 20 years in prison as a political prisoner and committed terror attacks.

This is what you consider the appropriate way to withdraw consent?

I didn’t say that. Someone else claimed that if you stay you consent by default.

Does this mean you accept there’s blood on your hands for any and all murders the US government commits abroad in the middle east?

It’s funny because I honestly think the opposite is true.