T Nation

Theoretically Speaking

[quote]Boffin wrote:
eisenaffe wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
z

Pedialyte: Each bottle contains: water, dextrose, potassium citrate, sodium chloride and sodium citrate.

…other stuff:

So basically tapwater with lemon juice, salt and sugar. What a pile of horseshit. And still people pay money for this crap.

Yes its simple, but not THAT simple.
People have been known to make their own, but you need to know what you are doing for it to be effective.[/quote]

Pedialyte is primarily designed for sick kids, so you are paying for flavour. Ask at a pharmacy for an adult version. It’s cheaper and usually just a powder.

[quote]Hanley wrote:
I was really thinking about what would happen when I went from 96kg back to 102ish kg 5 or 6 months down the road…
[/quote]

Ah, I misunderstood.

Again I’m interested in hearing what the guys that put up bigger numbers say, but in short yes you should.

If you consider many bodybuilders report their best gains immediately after a show. Obviously your not going to be down to that low of body fat so the effect wouldn’t be as amplified, but on your side you also have youth.

Note: I’m making an assumption below that your dieting up to the competition and then coming off the diet.

Ask others what they think, but if I was going to make a recommendation to you, I’d say when you come off the diet continue to eat as scheduled with the continuation of high protein and gradually increase the calories.

Hit the gym no later than the second day after the competition and start a higher volume routine. You likely won’t want to do much high intensity work since your CNS will likely be shot, so pick up on all the areas you let lag leading up to the competition and work on form/technique.

Here’s my rationale.

  1. As noted above, lots people notice very good gains in the 4-8 week window following a strict diet.

  2. The higher volume/low-moderate intensity work will not stress your recovery from competition and will help bring up whatever is lagging.

  3. Practicing form/technique is always good, so if you can fit in more reps now, why not.

  4. If you don’t need a break mentally, then it’s best to get right back into the gym.

  5. Your personal experiences (my impression anyway): You like volume and you seem to respond to it. You are also still fairly young and should have a fairly good metabolism.

I’ve done this a couple times. A year and a half ago I was up to 240 and decided I got too fat. I dropped down over the course of a year to 205 and didn’t lose any significant strength. Now I am back to around 215-220 and much stronger than I was at 240.

As long as you can maintain your strength as you drop down, I don’t see any reason why you wouldn’t be able to get even stronger when you gain again.

[quote]Hanley wrote:
If one can maintain strength levels while dieting, once the return to their pre diet bodyweight, or close to it, they should be stronger than before right?

For example I’m floating around 102kg at the moment and hitting PR’s all over the place. I’ve put on a couple of kg in the last month so I attribute that to having a significant role, in addition to over hauling my training.

I’ll be going down to 95/96kg so I can compete at 90kg (18 hour weigh in) so if I can even maintain my strength levels (i actually expect them to increase), when I come off the diet and bulk back up I should add a load of muscle and probably a bit of fat. Assuming this leaves me close to 102kg again, my strength should improve greatly due to increased leverages right?[/quote]

Sounds like it should work. I’ve taken my weight up a lot heavier than my 202 now, and I’m as stronger or stronger than the 217-220 before. of course, I was chubby, but leaning down didn’t hurt me.

My recent experience is with dropping 15lbs in 10 days to make weight for my first competition. It was a 24 hr weigh-in.

Went from 195 to 180 to sitting back at 197 today (week and a half out of my meet). I expected to get a little bit of rebound, wasn’t sure how much.

Comparing my gym lifts to my competition lifts, my strength was down slightly. However, I was also anxious for it being my first meet. Now, having put the weight back on, my lifts have improved somewhat in the gym.

All that said I think I fit into your theory, Hanley.

Lot’s of good stuff on this thread!

Pedialyte is the shit. I love the way it taste’s and it’s hella better than gatorade. Gatorade is just crap, it doesn’t have enough sodium to replenish plasma volume. I also love the taste of it, but my team mates hate it, because they say it’s so salty you’re thirstier after you drink it than before.

Weight/fat loss per se isn’t bad for strength. Decreasing your volume is. As you know, this is why getting fat is good for your bench and squat, it reduces range of motion in the bench and gives you more leverage in the hole on the squat.

Acute weight loss (water loss, cutting) can make you weaker, this is why you need to get your bloat on and make sure you get your minerals after the weigh in. I like to make sure I get a full dose of ZMA before I go to bed after the weigh-in before the meet.

Seems to me if you dieted down and maintained or gained strength, then you probably would be stronger when you drifted back up to your previous weight.

[quote]Boffin wrote:
Hanley, I’ll be interested to know your ‘cutting’ regime (mainly carb depletion & dehydration?)along with your method to put the weight back in 18 hrs.

Do you have various sets of lifting gear? I mean training at 102kg and lifting at 95-98 must make SQ suit & BP shirt fit completely differently.

I’d also be interested to find out what really happens, i.e. when theory becomes empirical results.
Keep strong.[/quote]

The cut’s pretty simple. Starting with 2800kcals split 40% protein, 30% carbs and 30% fat gradually dropping to 2700-2600, with the majority of the decrease coming from carbs and a slight decrease in protein.

I’ve worn the same squat suit now when since I lifted at 87.8kg. Last comp I wore it at circa 98kg. Haven’t worn it since then tho.

First time I wore my shirt (Katana) was at the last comp, again at 98ish kg. It was REALLY tight and I couldn’t touch with less than 170. My shirt technique’s alot better now so I’d probably be able to touch with a lot less. That being said all my attempts at the comp were with the collar pulled up really high (near choking me out) so I think there’s ALOT of jacking that can be done to tighten up the shirt if I come in a bit light.

Oh and I train in an old F6 that’s the same size as my katana, and it’s also the same shirt I wore at 87.8kg. The chest plate’s a good inch and a half larger (4.5 -v- 6) than the equivalent Katana so it’s lost ALOT of pop.

In truth, I’ve put on a good bit of muscle (probably 2-3kg) since my last comp in January, so while I MIGHT come in under my last comp weight (98kg) I probably won’t be any “smaller” if that makes sense. So I doubt I’ll lose anything out of my gear to be honest.

That being said, I do plan on getting a suit one size down to try out. I may or may not get into it tho!!

In truth tho

[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
Hanley wrote:
I was really thinking about what would happen when I went from 96kg back to 102ish kg 5 or 6 months down the road…

Ah, I misunderstood.

Again I’m interested in hearing what the guys that put up bigger numbers say, but in short yes you should.

If you consider many bodybuilders report their best gains immediately after a show. Obviously your not going to be down to that low of body fat so the effect wouldn’t be as amplified, but on your side you also have youth.

Note: I’m making an assumption below that your dieting up to the competition and then coming off the diet.

Ask others what they think, but if I was going to make a recommendation to you, I’d say when you come off the diet continue to eat as scheduled with the continuation of high protein and gradually increase the calories.

Hit the gym no later than the second day after the competition and start a higher volume routine. You likely won’t want to do much high intensity work since your CNS will likely be shot, so pick up on all the areas you let lag leading up to the competition and work on form/technique.

Here’s my rationale.

  1. As noted above, lots people notice very good gains in the 4-8 week window following a strict diet.

  2. The higher volume/low-moderate intensity work will not stress your recovery from competition and will help bring up whatever is lagging.

  3. Practicing form/technique is always good, so if you can fit in more reps now, why not.

  4. If you don’t need a break mentally, then it’s best to get right back into the gym.

  5. Your personal experiences (my impression anyway): You like volume and you seem to respond to it. You are also still fairly young and should have a fairly good metabolism.

[/quote]

Yah I’ve always noticed a really good growth rebound coming off a diet, that’s part of the reason I want to diet down!! Short term loss for long term gain and all that.

Figuring out the best way to capitalise on the rebound re: training is the hard thing tho. I was considering something along the lines of sheiko since the volume is relatively high and intensity low enough.

BUUUUUUT on the other hand, I haven’t done any high rep work in a long long time on the big lifts (sets of 8-12+) so maybe that’s what I should be hitting… I might just do that for 4-6 weeks afterwards and then get back into the more powerlifting-y type training…