[quote]hedo wrote:
We have little to fear from Christian Fundamentalists. They preach a theology of love and family. [/quote]
Why do we really need any religion to preach love and family?
I reject all religion, yet value loving relationships and my family above all else. Religion is a crutch…one GWB leans on to makes decisions about the world.
“I look to my higher father…”
“This is a crusade…”
[edited for typo]
Sump-Pump-Lump,
THE CHALLENGE awaits.
JeffR
Well, this is only true for those of us who are not islamic. However, it will only be visible to the FBI and other law enforcement agencies, so that’s ok.
RSU,
“Religion is a crutch…”
100% of the historical human experience contains religion.
“…one GWB leans on to makes decisions about the world.”
Well, Bush certainly does not apologize for thinking morality plays a part in his decisionmaking.
But wait a sec - I thought Bush was the puppet of the Saudis, who are Muslims…or the puppet of Jewish neocons…now you’re telling me that Bush gets his guindance from the Christian God?
What’s the next conspiracy - that Bush is possessed by a Sumerian demigod?
Well, which is it, Tin Foil Hat Brigade? I anxiously await a sober and reasonable answer substantiated by facts and common sense.
I’ll grab a Snickers.
[quote]Roy Batty wrote:
Mage, your “you hate America” tactic is really getting old. Hop off that high horse, cowboy. I think you are forgetting that, although we all have different ideast of how to get there, everyone in here cares about this country, or we wouldn’t be so passionate about our opinions. Your attempts to brand someone an America-Hater just halts any possibility of discourse. Besides, you are more intelligent that that. You shouldn’t have to resort to such tactics. They are below you.[/quote]
Have you been to Lumpy?s favorite website?
Now exactly where did I say he hated America?
RSU
That’s an interesting personal belief system. I wish you well with it. I don’t have that kind of love for my fellow man…but I try.
I was pointing out that, in my opinion, we have nothing to fear from those who emulate a good man.
The ones that follow in the footsteps of Mohanmmad…they worry me because of what they believe in as a matter of doctrine.
[/quote]
But wait a sec - I thought Bush was the puppet of the Saudis, who are Muslims…or the puppet of Jewish neocons…now you’re telling me that Bush gets his guindance from the Christian God?
What’s the next conspiracy - that Bush is possessed by a Sumerian demigod?
Well, which is it, Tin Foil Hat Brigade? I anxiously await a sober and reasonable answer substantiated by facts and common sense.
I’ll grab a Snickers.[/quote]
AHAHAHAHAHA. Lumpy and JusttheFACTs just got OWNED.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Our country was founded on such beliefs. “…One Nation, under God…”,
[/quote]
under god was added in the 1950’s. the original pledge didn’t have it.
the concept the country was founded on is freedom of religion, including athiesm.
[quote]The Mage wrote:
The government cannot make any law seen as respecting any religion.
[/quote]
blue laws?
[quote]hedo wrote:
We have little to fear from Christian Fundamentalists. They preach a theology of love and family.
[/quote]
except, of course, those that threaten or assault doctors and patients at family planning centers.
Roy Batty and a few others “get it”.
Read Roy’s post again. This is not a “fringe group” they are currently in control of the Republican leadership. These people like Bill Frist, Tom Delay, Antonin Scalia, have openly advocated Biblical law for America.
The GOP is heading for a meltdown, as MANY traditional conservatives are not on board with remaking America as the Christian Coalition wants to. Expect to see a power struggle in the Republican party.
There is overwhelming evidence that theocracy is Bush’s direction, for example the Faith Based Initiative was one of his first acts (guess how many Christian groups get money under the Faith Based Initiative? How many non-Christian religious groups get money?). Another example is the cutting of federal funding for any AIDS organization that does not teach abstinence as the primary way to combat AIDS. Here’s a clue, if someone is at risk of getting AIDS they are not going to be interested in abstinence at that point, it’s too late for abstinence. Instead, the federal government under Bush wants to legislate morality.
Under Bush our schools are teaching Creationism (the Talking Snake theory) as well as Evolution (basically accepted as scientific fact for over 100 years) in Science class! Ridiculous!
Under Bush the Federal Parks are selling an ‘alternate view’ of how the Grand Canyon was formed (not through commonly accepted geological forces, but because of “Noah’s Flood”) - hoo boy!
Again, in a Theocracy the federal government ‘fades into the background’ so that the Church can emerge as the cornerstone of public life.
People are free to believe whatever they want (personally I’m not an atheist, I’m agnostic if anything) but when people start legislating based on their own fundamentalist religious views, that’s when I reach for my revolver.
America has done just fine with a strong division between church and state. If the Christian Conservatives don’t like the separation between Church and State here, they should get the fuck out.
Hrmmmm…
Freedom of expression of religion is a better way to state the constitutional stance on religion. It grants some clarity on the matter.
Regarding conspiracies… Since when is it a crime for a group of people to gather and plan coordinated political change? Isn’t that how the civil rights movement started? or women’s suffrage? or a method of gov’t?
I am a very conservative guy regarding politics. I am an atheist… and some sort of humanist. Thus you’ll oftentimes find me opposed to such things as elective abortions, and unabridged and gov’t funded stem cell research. I believe both topics are intrinsically tied to our value system… A system of respect a responsibility to and for each other.
However, you’ll find me opposed on such topics as gambling and prostitution…
Am I worried about Republicans and a Christian tie-in? Nope. Sometimes our paths meet and sometimes they diverge. The divergences can be handled via regular voting and referendums a la the rescinding of the “no lap dance” law in Los Angeles strip clubs.
[quote]quan2m wrote:
Regarding conspiracies… Since when is it a crime for a group of people to gather and plan coordinated political change?[/quote]
It’s not the ‘gathering and planning’ that people find disturbing, it is the goal to remodel America in order to make fundamentalist religion the foundation of American life.
There is a long historical precedent for what we are seeing with Bush (who says that God speaks through him, that he is an instrument of God, and so on).
The French, Japanese, English, Egyptians (for example) all believed that the head of state is the direct messenger of God, and that the head of state speaks with “divine right”.
Personally, I don’t want anyone with a messiah complex to have their finger on the doomsday button.
All you Theocracywatch.com guys have is an idea that the christian right is going to impose biblical law.
Prove that it is happening.
Better yet - How is the Christian Right any worse than the Congressional Black Caucus, N.O.W., PETA, NAMBLA, or any of the other fringe freak groups that are crawling around in the Democratic Party?
If someone voted against abortion is that too radical for you?
If a congressman votes to pass a bill undoing what an activist judge has done to piss on the constitution - is that too radical?
If 58% of the American people believe that there should be time set aside for prayer in school (of the child’s own free will), is that a theocracy?
You guys are scared of something that can’t happen - the constitution forbids it. OR - are you affraid that the right is finally catching up to the left and is going to swing the pendelum the other way?
For those of you who are trying to disprove me by telling me that the “One nation under God” part was written in the 50’s - I GET IT.
The “endowed by our Creator” part is much much much older than that.
Such scared people - like a bunch of roaches scattering under the stove when the light’s turned on.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
All you Theocracywatch.com guys have is an idea that the christian right is going to impose biblical law.
Prove that it is happening.
[/quote]
you said it yourself…prayer in school…they also want to make abortion illegal for religious reasons…they also want porn, prostitution, drugs illegal…they want to make gay marriage illegal because of religious reasons…personally I think it’s none of there fucking business.
very good point…the christian right is a freak fringe group that should be stopped along with all the other freak fringe groups that you mentioned…
80% of americans believe in space aliens…should we waste class time on that horseshit too? I’d be happy if kids just learned to read…by the way…if a child wants to say a prayer to themselves in their head before a test no one is going to stop them.
so…
P.S. I believe in GOD and think that the religious right are a bunch of wackos along with those other nut case groups that you mentioned…I don’t want any of those dipshits dictating policy in our government.
How is prayer in school, being against abortion, against gay marraige, or any of the other supposedly fringe right-wing christian issues so radical?
School prayer is voluntary. Some think abortion is murder. The overwhelming majority of americans think that gay marraige is wrong.
You guys want to persecute people based on the fact that, instead of sitting down and allowing the left to run over them, they are actually standing up for what they believe in. That is sad. Indicitive of ignorance and fear gone berzerk.
Lumpy, to answer your question - This country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Like it, or not - our country was founded on Biblical law. Were our Founding Fathers - authors of arguably the greatest document ever written - Right-wing fanatics? I doubt it. But when judges can legislate their own agenda from the bench - 99% of which is left-wing crap - It’s time to pull in the reins.
So am I for Biblical Rule? If it means that my 10 year-old daughter would stop having to practice how to properly apply condoms in health class - Your god damn right I’m for it.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
How is prayer in school, being against abortion, against gay marraige, or any of the other supposedly fringe right-wing christian issues so radical?
School prayer is voluntary. Some think abortion is murder. The overwhelming majority of americans think that gay marraige is wrong.
You guys want to persecute people based on the fact that, instead of sitting down and allowing the left to run over them, they are actually standing up for what they believe in. That is sad. Indicitive of ignorance and fear gone berzerk.
Lumpy, to answer your question - This country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles. Like it, or not - our country was founded on Biblical law. Were our Founding Fathers - authors of arguably the greatest document ever written - Right-wing fanatics? I doubt it. But when judges can legislate their own agenda from the bench - 99% of which is left-wing crap - It’s time to pull in the reins.
So am I for Biblical Rule? If it means that my 10 year-old daughter would stop having to practice how to properly apply condoms in health class - Your god damn right I’m for it.
[/quote]
I know this is not something that you want to hear but…your daughter needs to learn how to use condoms…she’ll be having sex behind your back before you know it…I’m pretty sure that you don’t want her to get pregnant and have an abortion behind you back also…please be realistic about this one issue…no parent likes to hear it but it is the truth.
I see your point as far as the other issues go…if that’s how they feel then vote away…
[quote]DPH wrote:
I know this is not something that you want to hear but…your daughter needs to learn how to use condoms…she’ll be having sex behind your back before you know it…I’m pretty sure that you don’t want her to get pregnant and have an abortion behind you back also…please be realistic about this one issue…no parent likes to hear it but it is the truth.
I see your point as far as the other issues go…if that’s how they feel then vote away…
[/quote]
Not at 10 years old - and not by a teacher. It’s a parental responsibility. Some might even say it is a moral choice - but that might color me as a radical.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
DPH wrote:
I know this is not something that you want to hear but…your daughter needs to learn how to use condoms…she’ll be having sex behind your back before you know it…I’m pretty sure that you don’t want her to get pregnant and have an abortion behind you back also…please be realistic about this one issue…no parent likes to hear it but it is the truth.
I see your point as far as the other issues go…if that’s how they feel then vote away…
Not at 10 years old - and not by a teacher. It’s a parental responsibility. Some might even say it is a moral choice - but that might color me as a radical.
[/quote]
I’m not saying you’re a radical…
but are you going to teach your daughter how to use a condom?
If you are good for you…the sooner the better…you might be suprised at how young kids start experimenting with sex.
[quote]DPH wrote:
I know this is not something that you want to hear but…your daughter needs to learn how to use condoms…she’ll be having sex behind your back before you know it…I’m pretty sure that you don’t want her to get pregnant and have an abortion behind you back also…please be realistic about this one issue…no parent likes to hear it but it is the truth.[/quote]
I’m surprised Rainjack let you off so easy on this; he is really a polite guy. Based on statitistics, you can well say that many teens will have sex before they reach 20, but you certainly are in NO position to say what his daughter is going to do. She may very well save herself until marriage. And besides, who needs to be taught how to put on a condom. What absolute nonsense.