T Nation

Thekanezzi's HRT Thread


#1

Hi guys

I'm on my 8th week of hcg monotherapy.

I am taking 300iu q am, 25mg DHEA and 25mg pregnenolone qhs. My initial reason for seeking hrt was low energy and lack of mental clarity. I was also dealing with low mood for about 3 years. Honestly I had a suspicion of low T for about 10 years however, I think I crossed the threshold about 4 years ago to where I'm at now.

Here are my labs:

Pre treatment

Test 356 (348-1197)
Test free 7 (8.7-25.1)
Estradiol (s) 13.4 (8-35)
DHEA 156.9 (138-475)
TSH 0.839 (0.45-4.5)
LH 4.4 (1.7-8.6)

Post 8 weeks treatment

Test 382 (348-1197)
Test free 9.5 (8.7-25.1)
Estradiol (s) 22.3 (8-35)
DHEA 180.7 (138-475)
LH 2.2 (1.7-8.6)
FSH 2.9 (1.5-12.4)
T4 Free 1.64 (0.82-1.77)
T3 Free 3.4 (2.0-4.4)
Vit D 39.3 (30-100)
Progesterone 0.7 (0.2-1.4)

I have a CBC and CMP as well.

Symptoms are a little improved. Id say my initial symptoms are maybe 15% improved. Not what I hoped for but this is just the start of treatment. Increase in libido was noticed by my wife.

Any opinions on my labs? I'm guessing the boys are pretty much checked out at this point. From what I've read I'm taking a hefty dose of hcg and I'm not thinking I've had much response. I have an appointment in 2 weeks with my doc (Justin Saya) and Im thinking we'll have to try adding some test to get the numbers higher? Or should I ride out the monotherapy a little longer?

-age 32

-height 6"1'

-waist 36"

-weight 240lbs

-describe body and facial hair. I have a full beard minus the labret area. Average chest hair coverage but thin hair itself. Not very hairy arms or legs. Basically hair free elsewhere. Started losing my hair around age 18 slowly, which stopped around 25 with a good amount of hair left, after I began treatment the shedding has restarted.

-describe where you carry fat and how changed. Always had fat in the chest area except when very lean (sub 8%) last 4 years I have developed a gut, my waist had gone up 5 inches after I have gained 20lbs

-health conditions. None until now. Fatigue, moody, foggy thought, low mood, sweet cravings

-Rx. No rx drugs other than my hcg protocol. Ashwaganda, rhodiola and mucuna are the only things I take otherwise

-describe diet. See food and eat it, working on this slowly. Used to be solid. High protein, high fat, low carb. Never starvation diet. Keto once which worked great.

-describe training. Olympic style lifting for 15 years up until 4 years ago. Now I only walk and that's even seldom. No motivation.

-testes ache. Sonetime after sex

-how have morning wood. Morning wood barely happens, even with hcg. Never had nocturnal emission in my life.


#2

Can anyone chime in on my labs?


#3

Sorry to say that it looks like you have primary hypogonadism which means that the problem is testicle failure.

If you notice pre trt your LH was mid range indicating that your pituitary gland recognized your low T and was telling your testicles to produce more testosterone; unfortunately, for whatever reason, your testes did not comply.

This is why post hCG your T levels are barely increasing, because hCG simply mimics the function of LH.

Vit d is low. Start taking 5,000 IU's per day if you haven't already.

You may need TRT. Just to clarify, how much hCG in IU's are you taking per week?

"Started losing my hair around age 18 slowly, which stopped around 25 with a good amount of hair left, after I began treatment the shedding has restarted."

How did you "treat" the hair loss from your quote above?


#4

Thanks for the help.

I figured I was primary after these labs, bummer. I wasn't sure if there was a possibility that my testes needed more time to get the leydig cells restarted after being shut down for so long.

I take 5000iu Vit D daily. I'll try and up my sun exposure and look into a few mega doses of Vit d. Was surprised I was low.

300iu hcg per day, so 2100iu a week. Pretty hefty dose correct?

My post about hair loss wasn't clear. Apologies. No worries, I didn't take a 5ar. I was losing hair until 25, the hair loss has restarted now that I'm taking the hcg.


#5

Yes that dose is more than double what most take to mimic LH. Most take 250 ius per day.

You'll likely need TRT and would suggest having an AI on hand if you begin to experience high e2 or if labs report back as so.

Don't allow for less than weekly injections. Ideal is twice per week. I prefer EOd myself


#6

Ok cool.

I was thinking like 50mg, twice a week and shooting it SQ with some hcg. How much hcg is a good number for maintenance?

I'll read into an adex dosage as well.

If I'm doing 2x weekly shots, wouldn't propionate be better than an enanthate?

Creams and gels are a no go correct? Isn't the additional dht a good thing?

Thanks


#7

Most go with test cypionate, inject 250 ius hcg EOD and 0.5 mg adex the same time as injections. Creams/gels provide spikes and some seem to build up a tolerance to it. High DHT has pros and cons like most things.


#8

I'm surprised by that hcg dose, I would have thought lower but is not like I really know.

Thanks for the help

I will report back after I get started


#9

Ok, I just had my followup consult. This is the new plan

Test C 200mg/ week

Hcg 1000iu/ week

Adex 0.6mg/ week

I plan to do Monday and Thursday T injections. I'm not sure I'll use the whole 200 a week, I might start at 100 and go from there.

I'll do hcg 2x or 3x a week. What is a good schedule? Day before the injections? Day after? Is 3x any better?

I'll take the Adex the same day I inject T.

Otherwise, I'm excited to start feeling better.

Any opinions are welcome.

Thanks


#10

You can start at 100mg/week, that's what I'm doing and I feel better, but I think I do want to move a bit, maybe 150mg.

Keep us posted.


#11

I would recommend giving 100mg of T in divided doses twice weekly. 250iu of hcg EOD or E3D. The Adex is a little different for everyone, but 1mg/week in two divided doses is the normal starting point.

Pick a reasonable protocol and stick with it for at least four weeks then retest by doing labs halfway between injections. Then make adjustments based on the labs.


#12

Sounds good to me.

Stuff arrives Monday, I'll start and update the thread.

Thanks


#13

50mg T cyp self injected twice a week
0.5mg anastrozole at time of injections
250iu hCG SC EOD to maintain testes

Syringes:
T - #29 0.5ml 12"
hCG - #31, 0.5ml 5/16"

hCG is not going to make any T, so timing does not mater. hCG EOD provides very steady hCG levels because of half-life.

200mg T per week is insane, you will feel a huge benefit from what I suggested.

Many feel mood improvements with hCG, perhaps that is what you have been feeling.

Suggest that you get your sperm checked NOW out to see what the game is.

See these stickies found here: https://forums.t-nation.com/t/about-the-t-replacement-category/38/2?u=ksman
* advice for new guys
* things that damage your hormones
* protocol for injections
* finding a TRT doc

Thyroid:
* Do you use iodized salt?
* Always have?
* Outer eyebrows sparse or full?
* Ever feel cold too easily?

Weight and fat gain often from low thyroid function and low-T.


#14

Hi ksman

I will follow you protocol, thanks for suggesting it. I think your knowledge speaks for itself.

If I'm doing hcg eod, is there a benefit of doing the t eod as well?

I have a son and plan to keep it at 1 child. Id like more but it's not in the cards for our life and I'm ok with that.

Regarding thyroid

I take potassium iodide every day. I also limit my exposure to the other halides, RO water, ect. I have been doing so for about 2 years.

I am almost always hot. My cold tolerance is pretty stout.

Outer eyebrow may be thin, I'll look at some older pics and compare to now.

My tsh was .8, I thought that was pretty good? What is target for t4? I am within range but we all know those ranges aren't the best.

Thanks


#15

TSH near 1.0 is good.
T3, T4, fT3, fT4 should be near mid-range or a bit higher.

T twice a week and hCG EOD gets insane. I and others do T and hCG EOD to keep the routine simple.

RO water: No minerals. Suggest carbon filter to remove chlorine and keep minerals.

Your son gets iodine OK?


#16

I think a daily back and forth between hcg and t sounds more simple to me. I think I'll go that route. I pin the had q am right now anyways.

No minerals in RO but I add them back in with drops. The carbon filter won't get the floride out either which is the scarier halide of those 2 imo.

My son is still on the tit and my wife takes the potassium iodide. I also give him an infant dose in his drinks. He takes it no problem! Dude even takes cod liver oil straight. Favorite food is bubbies sauerkraut.


#17

Wanted to update the thread. No labs yet .

I feel pretty good. My sense of well being is slowly improving. Mental clarity is much improved.

My muscles feel fuller and I'm feeling stronger and maybe more flexible. I'm starting to be more active and I've lost about 10 lbs.

I don't feel like I'm craving sugar all the time anymore which helps with the weight loss as well.

Libido is kinda weird. Wasn't having any issues here before but my junk is def harder by a lot. More so than even when I was younger. Also, if I'm not getting it 2x a day (which im not on weekdays) I can't keep my mind off it, like i wake up at 2am and gotta have it. My wife is being very helpful. Here's a issue though, I feel like I have lost some sensitivity. I'm lasting way longer than I was before, and some times my orgasms leave me wanting a little more, almost like it builds up and then only 50% of it releases. This issue (lol, since when is lasting a long time an issue?) Isnt all the time but maybe 80% of the time. Kinda weird but definitely new. Anyone experience something like this?

I'm pinning everyday which is a piece of cake. 250iu hcg sq one day, 30mg test sq the next. 0.3mg adex po 2x a week.


#18

My wife was helpful but after a while she had to put some limits on things. 17 days of 2/3x then the conversation - 10 years ago. So I am 67YO, she is 19 years younger and we have both had some of the best orgasms ever lately.

Libido and orgasm is complex, involving a symphony of things and some parts of the chain may be getting exhausted. It is possible to have an orgasm and not ejaculate and vise-versa. These things are not as connected as they seem. It is all brain function plus a bit of plumbing.

Enjoy this honeymoon phase, it does not last forever.

You may get an intense hunger between meals. Snacks can fail. You need more protein and your body is needing it. I found that protein shakes did the trick, or eating a lot of peanuts.


#19

Thanks for the info.

Definitely true on the appetite. I’ve always had a voracious appetite so it’s getting a little crazy but manageable.

Blood work soon


#20

Ok, new labs are in

Test 743 (348-1197)
Test free 22.8 (8.7-25.1)
Estradiol (s) 34.4 (8-35)
DHEA 395.4 (138-475)
Vit D 57.4 (30-100)
Progesterone 1.0 (0.0-0.1) HIGH
TSH 2.7 (0.45-4.5)

Estradiol is higher than I’d like, but otherwise I’m getting there. I will ask for more adex wiyh my next round of drugs. Also, although my hdl and ldl ratio stayed the same my total cholesterol went up. I’M still in the ok range but I’m 32 and don’t want to play there, I do need to lose weight and be more active, is his common on hrt?

Progesterone was high but I’m attributing that high cortisol, prior to my labs being drawn I was up all night pulling clot out of some poor fellows brain and only had like a hrs of sleep.

What happened to tsh? Went from 0.83 to 2.7. Weird.

Any opinions?

Thanks