The Workout Drink That's Better Than Plazma

Well, it isn’t what I think of when I think of gaining muscle (this piece – I’m not going to call it an article – is advertising copy). But technically wouldn’t a bodyfat test count water weight as lean weight?

Maybe but, if someone tells me they put on 3lbs of lean mass I think of “3lbs of lean steak” was added to their body.

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I’m sure you’re right. T-Nation/Biotest singularly has my trust amongst supplement companies. Still, even the addition of a cheap protein (why concentrate) couldn’t be wrong…something for the carbs to drive into muscle tissue during the workout.

No matter! I add stuff and mix my own supplements together all the time!!!

Malic acid and similar acids (e.g. citric acid) act as intermediates in the Krebs Cycle (AKA Citric Acid Cycle), so they help provide energy while working out. Also, they are acid buffers within the body (even though they are acidic outside the body, they are basic (non-acidic) inside the body) and help to counteract the negative effects of the acid that is produced within the muscles during high intensity exercise and also from higher protein diets (for which all that acid from the protein needs to be buffered). Because of this, they help you do more reps and work before tiring.

As a side note, fruit acids act like fruits and vegetable in that they help the kidneys buffer acid from protein intake (which helps protect kidney health long term) and therefore protect from muscle loss and bone loss (because the body would otherwise break down those tissues to buffer the acid). They are antioxidants as well, and of course they are also flavoring agents.

But is it better than the old Biotest Anaconda? That was amazing and maybe it can make a comeback if the ingredients are cheaper now. iirc it’s main problem was the raw ingredients were super expensive

I can say, in my experience with Surge Workout Fuel:

  • I have more “good” workouts more often
  • It makes dieting a little more forgiving (I promise I have tried this “diet” thing)
  • I recover between workouts, so I get more good reps in over the course of the week

I typically notice more when I stop using it that things are getting worse than I notice while using it that things are improving, if that makes sense.

Lemon Drop is the best flavor!

Hi mpp thank you
THere’s still no human studies to show that introducing extra acid buffers like vitamin c or malic acid are beneficial for building muscle tissue.
T-nat itself covered one of these studies that shows ROS has a particular benefit for triggering muscular adaptation

A 2022 piece reviews this process and suggest that exercise itself produces sufficient REDOX balance - and that adding more buffer gets in the way of the adaptations we seek.

thank you

Had to make an account after lurking for over 20 years after this article.

In the past, CT has made outrageous claims before about gaining a certain of muscle in “x” amount of time, per his articles, training methods, extolling Biotest supplements, etc.

I get it, part of the deal, I still will read his articles, pick up some training bit here and there to try.

But seriously, .5 lbs. gain per workout (2.5/5) is just getting WAY out there, however you want to manipulate that, it just isn’t happening in what it’s implying.

Just getting a bit out there nowadays with the whole Darden bit (HIT), and what used to be T Nation, being thrown to the wayside. I’ve been at this for 48 years, I’m not some 12-year-old kid buying Weider magazines and buying the hype.

Get back to hardcore training, articles, and sure, try to sell supplements, I appreciate all the years of information.

Here’s to another couple decades of reading I hope.

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This is going to come off a little confrontational, for which I apologize as much as is appropriate, but it sounds like you haven’t contributed to the community or the company’s top line for two decades. How much weight do you think your asks should carry?

Since others are sharing their experiences, I’ll share mine as well: I’m sure I’ve spent more than $10k on Biotest supplements over the years. I’ve been reading this site since it first launched in the late 1990s and I’ve been buying Biotest supplements for as long as they’ve been selling them. I’ve only ever taken Biotest up on its return policy once in that entire time period and I did it to return the Surge I’d purchased since it didn’t live up to the hype. The cynic in me has my suspicions about what’s behind the apparent effort to replace Plazma, a supplement I dearly love and hope Biotest keeps making.

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Well, it’s not replacing Plazma since it’s still here. It has more ingredients to boost performance and recovery than Plazma while Plazma has the protein to increase direct muscle growth. Both products are really good, and really ar goal-dependant.

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I am much more a fan of Surge than I was for Plasma. I can feel Surge and need no caffeine to feel amped to workout. It is an odd feeling, but sipping the second dose during the workout seems to supply a constant vibrant feeling of not tiring at the latter portion of the workout.

I did notice a step weight increase when I first took Surge and the Challenge recommended workout.
During November I added a slight modification to the first block of each workout day. I pyramided up to a weight that I failed to reach 8 reps (sets of 8 reps.) I then preceded with the planned Surge Challenge workout protocol. During this change I am experiencing a linear weight gain (see above post with Fitted Line Graph.) I have also made some strength gains. And at 74 years old, this is not to be expected.

Please note that I am taking the full recommended doses of Surge (7 days a week).

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Not sure what your beef is, that I haven’t contributed in your opinion, or that I’m making an obvious observation on someone claiming something now (and in the past) that is not feasible, especially without a certain level of “help”. (Not that I have any issues with that, I did compete from teens to early 50’s, and now at 60 still am above TRT doses)

I think other than my calling that out, I was clear on my appreciation for CT’s articles, Biotests products, and the webpage.

What am I “asking” that set you off? You’re assuming from 1 post I don’t use the products, and why would either not contributing to either lessen my opinion on this subject? Are you saying that Ct is right on his claim(s) now and in the past?

Nothing like making someone feel welcome to the community, lol. I saw back in the day how things went when someone spoke out on what were facts, truth, and the like…

Want to go old school and do front squats to see who leaves? :stuck_out_tongue:

“This is going to come off a little confrontational, for which I apologize as much as is appropriate, but it sounds like you haven’t contributed to the community or the company’s top line for two decades. How much weight do you think your asks should carry?”

My beef was extraordinarily clear, as I spelled it out explicitly. I think it’s silly to “lurk” for 20 years, absorbing free content, then point out that you’re making an account solely to complain while appealing to your own half-century of experience for credibility; use that experience to get on here and help folks.

I do appreciate the callback to, perhaps, the greatest thread of all time.

None of that is to say you aren’t welcome or your opinions aren’t warranted. I may have misread that you’d never bought a product while I was at it, in which case my bad. I stand by the two-way street: help, then criticize.

Army was also losing when I originally posted, which may have framed my initial emotion.

Wait, to which thread are you referring?

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Oh man, I’m pretty sure it’s a decade old. To his point, this site was a bit less welcoming then. I prefer it now and certainly wouldn’t want to be a voice scaring folks off.

Anyway, two really strong dudes gave differing advice on improving a poster’s front squat. Their disagreement kept escalating and eventually they challenged each other to a front squat competition, and the loser had to leave the site forever. They were both men of their words, both posted impressive videos, and the loser actually left the site. The reality is we all lost at that point.


I’ve used and loved Plazma for years. With that said, Surge Workout Fuel has won me over.

I honestly feel that my training and recovery has been better with Surge Workout Fuel. Was it poor with Plazma? Of course not! Both are excellent products, which is why I’m not going to get lost arguing about details.

For me, it comes down to the fact that I enjoy training with it, and I find it exceptional for my other activities (bikes and hockey). Hard to beat that.

If you like Plazma more, that’s cool. Just stay on your side of the street. Kidding!

And for those worried, Tim Patterson has said here on the forums, “We will only phase out Plazma if customers stop buying it.”

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This article came out right as I was starting to contemplate adding some intra carbs back into my morning workouts.

I’ve had about five workouts with the Surge on board now, and wow. Brings back memories. I had forgotten how much of a difference it makes.

There are more details in my log over in the training log section, but I just had to pop into the thread and say - if you are skeptical of pre/intra carbs in general…or maybe you’ve tried it in the past and ditched it for whatever reason - give it a go with this stuff and do everything right with the timing and water and boom…crazy crazy pumps.

And since I’m already in celebrity endorsement mode, throw some damn Carbolin-19 on that fire while you’re at it. The combo is amazing. Not just a watery pump, but a hard pump…hard to describe but it’s real.

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Some of the weight was obviously from increased glycogen storage and intramuscular water.

Plus, you got your numbers wrong. I said 0.25 to 0.5 lb PER WEEK. And that is an AVERAGE over a year (max of 12-25lbs per yar). In reality muscle growth is rarely linear. You can have a sudden gain in muscle mass than not gain for weeks or months.

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