The Westside Method Thread

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
If I were to start incorporating box jumps, plyo push-ups et al in my training would you do them before or after your DE work?[/quote]

Absolutely before. You need to be pretty fresh to get the most benefit from explosive exercises like the ones you mentioned.

A common complaint I get about plyo’s before the main work is:

It’s going to make me too tired to get all the important stuff done.

My response is always the same:

Well, if this is the case, then you are in terrible shape… and jumps, throws, and sprints will get you in better shape.

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
If I were to start incorporating box jumps, plyo push-ups et al in my training would you do them before or after your DE work?[/quote]

Absolutely before. You need to be pretty fresh to get the most benefit from explosive exercises like the ones you mentioned.

A common complaint I get about plyo’s before the main work is:

It’s going to make me too tired to get all the important stuff done.

My response is always the same:

Well, if this is the case, then you are in terrible shape… and jumps, throws, and sprints will get you in better shape.[/quote]

For me these are a great way to check myself. If I keep jumps prior to ME/DE I: Won’t dick around with my warm-up and; won’t get too fatigued before I start because I don’t want to crush my face before I start the ME/DE exercise (with regards to box jumping)

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
If I were to start incorporating box jumps, plyo push-ups et al in my training would you do them before or after your DE work?[/quote]

Absolutely before. You need to be pretty fresh to get the most benefit from explosive exercises like the ones you mentioned.

A common complaint I get about plyo’s before the main work is:

It’s going to make me too tired to get all the important stuff done.

My response is always the same:

Well, if this is the case, then you are in terrible shape… and jumps, throws, and sprints will get you in better shape.[/quote]

Normally that’s what I do, but if time at the gym becomes a factor will you do these at a time separate from the main workouts? Like upper body plyos the day after DE bench because there wasn’t enough time the day before to work them in. I know it won’t be optimal because of the damaged state my upper body is in, but it’ll still help some I’m thinking atm.

When short on time, I like to superset first few warmup sets of my main exercise with my plyos. That tip comes from Jim Wendler.

At least for things like plyo push-ups I’m realising that I’m VERY weak. I’m gonna try do them tomorrow when I’m properly warmed up but I just tried to do one now thinking it was going to be quite easy and I couldn’t really do one.

Is this natural for first time or is there quite a weakness there?

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
At least for things like plyo push-ups I’m realising that I’m VERY weak. I’m gonna try do them tomorrow when I’m properly warmed up but I just tried to do one now thinking it was going to be quite easy and I couldn’t really do one.

Is this natural for first time or is there quite a weakness there?[/quote]

Just depends on your current strength. I think a pushup is something like 60% of your bodyweight, so if you struggle to do that on the bench it may be a problem. There are a lot of other factors that are involved with that, though.

For now you can just try being explosive with the bench and with pushups. If you have bands you can do a “reverse band pushup” allowing you to accelerate faster as well. If you can handle well over 60% of your bodyweight on the bench yet cannot do plyo-pushups work on being explosive.

You can also do less taxing things that other people have mentioned like ball throws.

Yes I mean I weigh 90kg but I can probably bench 115kg right now so definitely not an issue of my bench being far too weak (although of course it’s not exactly record breaking!). Will give them a go today and see how they feel.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
If I were to start incorporating box jumps, plyo push-ups et al in my training would you do them before or after your DE work?[/quote]

Absolutely before. You need to be pretty fresh to get the most benefit from explosive exercises like the ones you mentioned.

A common complaint I get about plyo’s before the main work is:

It’s going to make me too tired to get all the important stuff done.

My response is always the same:

Well, if this is the case, then you are in terrible shape… and jumps, throws, and sprints will get you in better shape.[/quote]

Normally that’s what I do, but if time at the gym becomes a factor will you do these at a time separate from the main workouts? Like upper body plyos the day after DE bench because there wasn’t enough time the day before to work them in. I know it won’t be optimal because of the damaged state my upper body is in, but it’ll still help some I’m thinking atm.[/quote]

Just get it in at some point during the week. Ideally, you would do plyo’s when you are fresh but if you have to do them the next day, that is fine. Just jump and throw as hard as you can.

I have to be brought back down to Earth every once and a while and remember that I am getting ready for a powerlifting meet, not a box jump competition. haha. So, you should be at 100% readiness for your jumps most of the time. If you are short on time every once in a while and have to do them the next day, it is not going to hurt anything.

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Yes I mean I weigh 90kg but I can probably bench 115kg right now so definitely not an issue of my bench being far too weak (although of course it’s not exactly record breaking!). Will give them a go today and see how they feel.[/quote]

If they feel really really tough, like a max effort, you could always just do some super light dynamic benching or get a light medicine ball and throw that around. Also, don’t forget about explosive rowing and pull-ups as well.

My lower part of my hamstring is always sore. What are some good assistance lifts to hit that part of my hamstring?

So I did the plyo pushups today - did 3x5. However, my triceps felt very, very, very hurt afterwards. A very achey kind of pain.

Is this natural/does it go away or what? It kind of messed up the rest of things to be honest because my triceps were hurting so it kind of messed up my bench and everything.

Great write up and summary of your methodology/thinking behind what you do on the program! I think I will switch to Westside style training even if only for the flexibility of not having to repeat exercises on consecutive workouts (which can get very demotivating if you aren’t progressing). I always find I do best when I leave an exercise for a long long time and then come back to it after getting strong on something else!

STB, I want you to take a look at my transformation phase, which I will be starting next week:

First, I plan on doing this for two weeks, then taking a deload for the third week, which is the week of my meet. During my deload I’m basically going to be doing some light (50% or less) technique work, as well as practicing my commands some more.
All dynamic work is planned with no bands/chains/box, and I plan on doing my competition lifts for my max effort days. I am a raw lifter.

Anyway:

Week one:
Upper DE
Speed bench 10x3@55%
DB bench 3x10
Curl variation 3x10
Face pulls 5x10

Lower ME
Squat- work up to 85% for a single
Deadlift- same
Heavy front squat holds
Maybe back raises

Upper ME
Bench- work up to 90% for a single
Press 3x5
Barbell rows 3x5

Lower DE
Speed squats: 8x2@50%
Speed deads: 10x1@50%
Back raises 3x10
Maybe front squat holds for time

Week two:

Upper/Lower DE days same as above

Upper ME:
Bench- 75% for 1x5
Press 3x5
Barbell rows 3x5

Lower ME:
Squat- 75% for 2x3
Deadlift 75% for 2x3
Heavy front squat holds
Back raises maybe

I plan on using full gear (i.e. knee/wrist wraps) for the top set of all my max effort work. Assistance work will be limited to ~75% of the weights I use in my intensification phase.

My questions mainly center around my max effort days. Is it wise, even as a raw lifter, to do my competition lifts for my max effort days? Or, should I stick to using a special exercise, maybe a regular box squat?

I plan on squatting and deadlifting for my lower body ME days, so I plan on lowering the percentages/volumes for those days as compared to my upper body ME days. However, the numbers I decided to go with on those days are rather arbitrary. Is there a certain percentage I should be aiming for? Or, as another thought, could I just work up to my planned opener? I’ve done this in the past with some degree of success.

Just give me your thoughts/suggestions (anything from other posters is greatly appreciated as well), thanks a lot. Hopefully the information here will help me hit some PR’s at my meet.

Storm,
you’ve said many times that testing the competition lifts in training basically reflects a lack of confidence in oneself or in the training system. You’ve also added that the only exception would be a raw lifter not competing often/at all, in order to identify possibly different weaknesses and to adjust the weights for DE days (I’m just paraphrasing).

So my question is, what would be a good way of doing that (testing)?
I just started the intensification phase, and spending 2 out of 3 ME lower days and 1 out of 3 ME upper days to test my maxes sounds like it wouldn’t be optimal, as I wouldn’t be working specifically on the things I suck at.
So I was thinking, does it seem ok if I go through the intensification phase without testing my maxes, deload, and say on Friday during the deload week do a “Mock meet” to test all 3 lifts in the same session? Then go back to the accumulation phase.
Of course if you can think of a better way, please tell me!

Thanks for this thread and your log btw, I’ve been breaking PRs like crazy. I wouldn’t be surprised if my total went up 150-200lbs when I retest. Insane.

I have a question for those knowledgable in Westside or conjugated training;

In linear periodization routines, like 5/3/1, loads are calculated by percentages of a pre-estimated RM, and after the microcycle is over the RM is increased by a small increment

In conjugated training, how is the progression calculated, and how frequent are the increments?
Is it simply a ‘do as you can’ thing?

[quote]Kraky wrote:
Storm,
you’ve said many times that testing the competition lifts in training basically reflects a lack of confidence in oneself or in the training system. You’ve also added that the only exception would be a raw lifter not competing often/at all, in order to identify possibly different weaknesses and to adjust the weights for DE days (I’m just paraphrasing).

So my question is, what would be a good way of doing that (testing)?
I just started the intensification phase, and spending 2 out of 3 ME lower days and 1 out of 3 ME upper days to test my maxes sounds like it wouldn’t be optimal, as I wouldn’t be working specifically on the things I suck at.
So I was thinking, does it seem ok if I go through the intensification phase without testing my maxes, deload, and say on Friday during the deload week do a “Mock meet” to test all 3 lifts in the same session? Then go back to the accumulation phase.
Of course if you can think of a better way, please tell me!

Thanks for this thread and your log btw, I’ve been breaking PRs like crazy. I wouldn’t be surprised if my total went up 150-200lbs when I retest. Insane.
[/quote]

That’s exactly what I did. I even did a 1 week transformation where I did speed work the with comp lifts with decreasing intensity as the week came to a close. Got a 45lb squat PR in 12 weeks

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
I have a question for those knowledgable in Westside or conjugated training;

In linear periodization routines, like 5/3/1, loads are calculated by percentages of a pre-estimated RM, and after the microcycle is over the RM is increased by a small increment

In conjugated training, how is the progression calculated, and how frequent are the increments?
Is it simply a ‘do as you can’ thing?[/quote]

It’s more by feel then any %.

Choose a max effort exercise.
Feeling good for the day? Go for a PR in whatever the ME exercise is.
Feeling just “okay” or shitty? Hit a set of 3 or 5.

Track results, next time you have that days ME training, if you’re using the same movement try and set either a new PR, or 3/5 rep PR.

Key is finding correlations that help your big 3. Does your bench go up when your 3RM incline go up? If yes, make your 3RM incline go up.

Anyone else done ultrawides with just a little chain resistance (for me 275lb bench, 50lb chain)? I knew they’re bad for ME work because of the shoulder strain, but I figured the chains would take some of the strain off so I did it for a 4RM and even grinded the rep pretty hard and my shoulder felt great and the focus was still on the chest and lats. Much more so than any other ME bench variation I’ve ever done. Just thought I’d share and see if anyone else had a similar experience.

Also from what I read people usually try to hit 3 reps of 90% or greater of there one rep max for that day.

Also since I train at a sketchy college gym there aren’t a lot of bands or bars for max effort. I was thinking since I am weak off the chest could I do weighted dips for a 3 rep max but make sure I lean over to really hit my chest.

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:

[quote]want2getlean wrote:
I have a question for those knowledgable in Westside or conjugated training;

In linear periodization routines, like 5/3/1, loads are calculated by percentages of a pre-estimated RM, and after the microcycle is over the RM is increased by a small increment

In conjugated training, how is the progression calculated, and how frequent are the increments?
Is it simply a ‘do as you can’ thing?[/quote]

It’s more by feel then any %.

Choose a max effort exercise.
Feeling good for the day? Go for a PR in whatever the ME exercise is.
Feeling just “okay” or shitty? Hit a set of 3 or 5.

Track results, next time you have that days ME training, if you’re using the same movement try and set either a new PR, or 3/5 rep PR.

Key is finding correlations that help your big 3. Does your bench go up when your 3RM incline go up? If yes, make your 3RM incline go up.[/quote]

Thanks man!
I tried searching around but couldn’t come up with such a concise and clear awnser, thanks!