The Westside Method Thread

[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:

[quote]jacob-1310 wrote:
anyone ever tried DE upper days with Floor presses?

so doing

bench 15 x 3
floor press 15 x 3

just asking cause floor pressing breaks up the motion. Or is it better to just pause the rep?[/quote]

Never pause on DE bench days, or anything for that matter except competition prep. I tend to pause on my ME bench, but I know that Louie Simmons has the guys there touch and go everything as fast as possible unless told otherwise.[/quote]

I might question no-pausing if youre a raw lifter for ME. I don’t know the answer, but I wouldnt throw that one out yet. I would like to have more TUT around the chest personally, between ME and RE, but I understand it on DE (?) I’d like to hear thoughts on this one as well.

I know Louie has said over and over that he doesn’t like pauses on the chest for speed work because it decreases the stretch reflex. I never tried while I was doing WS and took the old man’s word for it.

When I tried the 8 Week Bench program Tim Henriques put together on here (based off an old CT program), I tried paused speed work for the first time. I definetly think it has its place with raw benchers. I feel much more explosive off the chest. After awhile it quit helping me as much and and I switch back to touch and go. I think touch and go should be the bread and butter, but sneaking in some paused speed work has some value. Try it, if it works use it.

Just my .02

Is there much benefit in doing Max Effort Sumo Deadlift when I pull conventional?

[quote]michael_xyz wrote:
Is there much benefit in doing Max Effort Sumo Deadlift when I pull conventional?[/quote]

Shit yes.

I’m still not sure what suits me best. I’ve always pulled conventional and wasn’t really aware of sumo deadlifts until somewhat recently. I’ve read it suits people with wider hips and other factors. Well, I sure do have very wide hips but I’m not sure on other things like arm length and torso length etc.

I have tried it a few times but obviously not going to be stronger suddenly when I’ve pulled conventional for my whole lifting life.

How would you recommend to slowly start seeing which may be better to use? I don’t want to just use sumo and let my conventional start declining or anything only to find out that conventional is actually better for me.

Just switch them back and forth, see what comes out. For DE days either do 50/50 sumo/conv or switch every week, something like that. Maybe you could try ME sumo a few times while keeping your DE conventional.

STB, do you cheat on the barbell rows ? Do you do them at 90 degrees or pendlay ? Is it OK to cheat and if yes, how much cheating ? Thanks in advance.

[quote]McDouche wrote:
I know Louie has said over and over that he doesn’t like pauses on the chest for speed work because it decreases the stretch reflex. I never tried while I was doing WS and took the old man’s word for it.

When I tried the 8 Week Bench program Tim Henriques put together on here (based off an old CT program), I tried paused speed work for the first time. I definetly think it has its place with raw benchers. I feel much more explosive off the chest. After awhile it quit helping me as much and and I switch back to touch and go. I think touch and go should be the bread and butter, but sneaking in some paused speed work has some value. Try it, if it works use it.

Just my .02[/quote]

I was thinking of doing chain-suspened bench press (bottom-up bench press) for a cycle for power off my chest.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

I was thinking of doing chain-suspened bench press (bottom-up bench press) for a cycle for power off my chest.
[/quote]

I LOVE those. Bar returns exactly to the same starting point as opposed to pin presses so you can keep a better starting position and stay tight. Since the bar hang in chains you have to push straight up or the bar moves back over your face or towards your feet, wasting energy.

I’ve done them with straight weight and with chains. Both are fun.

damn…getting sick sure does suck the strength outta a guy . had a bout with the puker flu monday morning , so obviously calorie intake was next to nothing Monday ; better on Tuesday , but probably about half of normal ; and still not all the way back today…completely skipped DE upper , went in for DE lower today and came up 10 seconds long on the squats . and I was pretty gassed by the time I was done .

A question for StB,
I was reading the following article, wherein Louie Simmons describes (vaugely) the three blocks and it sounds like he puts the speed-strength wave in the transformation block. I know you have one in the accumulation block too, but I was wondering if it was necessary or could I just do three weeks of 20+ sets of DE work and switch to the intensification phase.

http://www.westside-barbell.com/articles/programming-organization/

Thanks

Another question, are there any rule/guidelines for using band-resisted movements for ME work? I ask because I have a home gym and plates and I’m poor and plates are expensive, so bands seem like a good way to add resistance without the need for more plates.

[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

I was thinking of doing chain-suspened bench press (bottom-up bench press) for a cycle for power off my chest.
[/quote]

I LOVE those. Bar returns exactly to the same starting point as opposed to pin presses so you can keep a better starting position and stay tight. Since the bar hang in chains you have to push straight up or the bar moves back over your face or towards your feet, wasting energy.

I’ve done them with straight weight and with chains. Both are fun. [/quote]

Tried it for a few singles maybe 5-10% below my perceived max and it’s a hell of a lot better than from pins.

A) For the reasons you stated above

and

B) It is so much easier on the joints because I can get in the proper position easier and my joints don’t get jarred when the bar becomes motionless.

I was expecting a ton of chest with the moderate grip I used, but really felt it in my upper back, lats, triceps, and leg drive more than anything.

how do you guys set up your chains for suspended work? I’m in a commercial gym so I’m still trying to figure out how I would hook it up.

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:

[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:

[quote]jacob-1310 wrote:
anyone ever tried DE upper days with Floor presses?

so doing

bench 15 x 3
floor press 15 x 3

just asking cause floor pressing breaks up the motion. Or is it better to just pause the rep?[/quote]

Never pause on DE bench days, or anything for that matter except competition prep. I tend to pause on my ME bench, but I know that Louie Simmons has the guys there touch and go everything as fast as possible unless told otherwise.[/quote]

I might question no-pausing if youre a raw lifter for ME. I don’t know the answer, but I wouldnt throw that one out yet. I would like to have more TUT around the chest personally, between ME and RE, but I understand it on DE (?) I’d like to hear thoughts on this one as well.
[/quote]

I’m a raw only lifter and I pause on the chest on my ME singles, and even do 4 second pauses as a variation, especially in the run up to a competition. I just know that Louie says otherwise - but I don’t think he gives a lot of thought to adapting Westside to raw competitors.

[quote]budreiser wrote:
how do you guys set up your chains for suspended work? I’m in a commercial gym so I’m still trying to figure out how I would hook it up.[/quote]

I have some 3/8 chain that I think is about 4 feet or so. I set the pins up high in a power rack. I loop the chains around the pins. Make sure they’re even. Thread the bar inbetween. If you got it right, the bar will be not even an inch off your chest if that much after you’re in your arch. For adjustments inbetween what your pins allow, you can loop around the pins one more time.

What would a cycle of SSB squats do for someone mostly? I’m thinking it would help with upper back tightness and because of how the center of gravity is might help my pull out. Any thoughts anyone?

Is it really necessary to ever dead/squat/bench for a 1rm? I mainly train for strongman, so my gym work is mainly for carryover to the events. The transformation stage would probably get me ready for a competition, but I would never actually maxout squat/dead/bench. Is that a problem or does it really not matter? It seems like as long as I’m fixing my weakness’, it shouldn’t really matter.

[quote]louiek wrote:
Is it really necessary to ever dead/squat/bench for a 1rm? I mainly train for strongman, so my gym work is mainly for carryover to the events. The transformation stage would probably get me ready for a competition, but I would never actually maxout squat/dead/bench. Is that a problem or does it really not matter? It seems like as long as I’m fixing my weakness’, it shouldn’t really matter.[/quote]

You pretty much answered your own question. Only do what helps in a competition. Everything else is a waste of time. Strongman is a lot different than powerlifting. Many skills need to be developed outside of just pure absolute strength (even though thats still very important).

If squatting, benching, and deadlifting heavy in training trasnlate to increased performance on your events, then do it. I know a lot of strongman guys train heavy during the week, then have an event day on the weekends. As far as maxing out on the competition powerlifts? You are probably just stroking your ego more than anything. Max Effort work should still be done but it would make more sense, due to the massive skill set a good strongman needs, to use specialty bars and many variaitons of the powerlifts in order to build strength at many different leverages.

Does this help?

Are the speed and technique good ?

[quote]StormTheBeach wrote:

[quote]louiek wrote:
Is it really necessary to ever dead/squat/bench for a 1rm? I mainly train for strongman, so my gym work is mainly for carryover to the events. The transformation stage would probably get me ready for a competition, but I would never actually maxout squat/dead/bench. Is that a problem or does it really not matter? It seems like as long as I’m fixing my weakness’, it shouldn’t really matter.[/quote]

You pretty much answered your own question. Only do what helps in a competition. Everything else is a waste of time. Strongman is a lot different than powerlifting. Many skills need to be developed outside of just pure absolute strength (even though thats still very important).

If squatting, benching, and deadlifting heavy in training trasnlate to increased performance on your events, then do it. I know a lot of strongman guys train heavy during the week, then have an event day on the weekends. As far as maxing out on the competition powerlifts? You are probably just stroking your ego more than anything. Max Effort work should still be done but it would make more sense, due to the massive skill set a good strongman needs, to use specialty bars and many variaitons of the powerlifts in order to build strength at many different leverages.

Does this help?[/quote]

Yeah, that’s exactly what I thought, since it’s all about weakness’, just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing out on anything by not maxing out as often as a competing powerlifter would. My routine is a bit different as well. I’ll generally work my ME or DE, than RE, then I do an event or conditioning. My DE upper is substituted for log press, and my ME upper is overhead pressing.

[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:

[quote]RTJenforcer wrote:

[quote]jacob-1310 wrote:
anyone ever tried DE upper days with Floor presses?

so doing

bench 15 x 3
floor press 15 x 3

just asking cause floor pressing breaks up the motion. Or is it better to just pause the rep?[/quote]

Never pause on DE bench days, or anything for that matter except competition prep. I tend to pause on my ME bench, but I know that Louie Simmons has the guys there touch and go everything as fast as possible unless told otherwise.[/quote]

I might question no-pausing if youre a raw lifter for ME. I don’t know the answer, but I wouldnt throw that one out yet. I would like to have more TUT around the chest personally, between ME and RE, but I understand it on DE (?) I’d like to hear thoughts on this one as well.
[/quote]

I’m a raw only lifter and I pause on the chest on my ME singles, and even do 4 second pauses as a variation, especially in the run up to a competition. I just know that Louie says otherwise - but I don’t think he gives a lot of thought to adapting Westside to raw competitors.[/quote]

i to have read from louie to not pause on DE days. However, mark bell has placed it as a method (pausing on DE days). I was just curious in regards to adding in floor pressing as its similar to a box squat.