The War on Boys

Off Topic
121

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
You have no evidence that physical punishment is a very effective tool. [/quote]
Sure you do. Every person that was physically punished (spanked) and turned out a well adjusted adult is evidence that it was effective.

[quote]
You had no way of knowing whether your children would be negatively effected in the way that a mountain of evidence suggest children overall are effected. [/quote]

What mountain of evidence. The end of your video had a website, which had a bunch of links half of which didn’t even work. Where is the research?

[quote]
Further, you have no evidence that your children would not have turned out BETTER if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting. [/quote]

And you would also have no evidence that children would not have turned out WORSE if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting.

[quote]
Saying that your children turned out well due to physical punishment is like saying that the 2/3 of smokers that don’t die from smoking turned out well because they smoked. [/quote]
No it isn’t.

[quote]
There’s a mountain of evidence about the harm any amount of physical punishment does to children.[/quote]

Where. There are generations of people that were raised with some form of physical discipline and a heck of a lot of them are just fine.

[quote]
I already posted a video enumerating the evidence above.[/quote]

No one cares about your PowerPoint presentation video. I for one want RESEARCH not some persons opinion.

122

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
Mental cruelty isn’t any more favorable to spanking of course. They should be treated as full human beings with limited knowledge and physical faculties. In other words, negotiation instead of mental manipulation and cruelty.[/quote]

Have you ever had to deal with children before? Or perhaps any siblings who absolutely refused to listen to you, simply because their pride was hurt?
[/quote]

Yes, of course I have. I spent like 40 hours a week with my nephew from the ages of 9 months to 6 years when his mother had to go back to work part time due to his father’s illness.

I never used punishment of any kind because his mother spent almost every waking moment of her time away from work to prepare, educate, and negotiate with her son. the rare exceptions to when negotiation wasn’t used was in infancy where they bribed their kids with treats and positive reinforcement to potty train etc…

Further, I’m not the only one who’s seen success with this. There is a huge healthy community of parents worldwide(mostly in North America) who practice peaceful parenting.[/quote]

Bribing a child, no way that could backfire. No way…

My sister in law and her husband practice peaceful parenting. Their oldest daughter walks all over them and is generally a pain in the fucking ass to deal with. It’s a shame too because she’s cute as a button. [/quote]

There’s a presentation with the evidence(positive and negative consequences) for using bribes/positive reinforcement in the series of videos I listed.

Peaceful parenting does not mean you let your child walk over you.Obviously quite a lot can go wrong if you abandon your needs for the needs of your child.

After the necessary food, shelter, clothing, etc… you negotiate for the rest.
Negotiation does not mean you do what your child wants all the time. It means you negotiate your needs and theirs. Your child wants a toy, but doesn’t like to read or do math. You negotiate with him to trade a toy for some amount of daily math/reading time without complaint and so on…

If your child wants something besides basic comforts, they negotiate for it.

123

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

Make sure you’re cheek weld is fucking legit.[/quote]

Yeah, I’m getting good with Irons. But my eyesight is really shit for my age, and I can’t see 50 yards. Front sight focus = Beans can’t even make out the target except for a blur.

I can fuck up a man size target for sure… Plinking a tin can? Not a shot in hell, lol.

So I’ve put optics on everything, and unless it Paralax free, I’m pretty fucked unless bench shooting. Which I’m MOA at this point with a shit scope. So I have high hopes. Just tossed an Aimpoint on the AR, really hoping both eyes open shooting improves my target acquisition.

Cheek weld and breathing I’m good with for my skill level. I’m working on trigger control, follow through, etc at this point.

[/quote]

Trigger control was another big one for me. I would hold a pulled trigger on my M-16 for at least a full second before slowly releasing it. You should be able to feel the trigger click forward. It helps to keep you from jerking after a shot.

It comes with time and practice like most things. [/quote]

Yeah, I keep double tapping, lol. The trigger I got is shockingly awesome for $60 and has almost no creep from reset to full extension, so the muscle memory of “take out the slack, hold and fire” keeps me double tapping, which is a no-no at the bench shooting range… Action pit it’s fine.

The trigger on my Mossberg has no difference between reset and no tension. It comes back to the same spot, and is fucking mint.

124

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

After the necessary food, shelter, clothing, etc… you negotiate for the rest.
[/quote]

lmfao

Please keep up with this shit. It’s hilarious. Like better than any movie.

“Through youtube and a nephew, I’ve learned to negotiate with a child and blah blah blah.”

My daughter would pwn you. And I encourage her to do so, lol.

125

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
After the necessary food, shelter, clothing, etc… you negotiate for the rest.
Negotiation does not mean you do what your child wants all the time. It means you negotiate your needs and theirs. Your child wants a toy, but doesn’t like to read or do math. You negotiate with him to trade a toy for some amount of daily math/reading time without complaint and so on…

If your child wants something besides basic comforts, they negotiate for it.[/quote]

Sounds great. I wholeheartedly disagree. I hope if you decide to have kids it works out for you.

126

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
You have no evidence that physical punishment is a very effective tool. [/quote]
Sure you do. Every person that was physically punished (spanked) and turned out a well adjusted adult is evidence that it was effective.

[quote]
You had no way of knowing whether your children would be negatively effected in the way that a mountain of evidence suggest children overall are effected. [/quote]

What mountain of evidence. The end of your video had a website, which had a bunch of links half of which didn’t even work. Where is the research?

[quote]
Further, you have no evidence that your children would not have turned out BETTER if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting. [/quote]

And you would also have no evidence that children would not have turned out WORSE if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting.

[quote]
Saying that your children turned out well due to physical punishment is like saying that the 2/3 of smokers that don’t die from smoking turned out well because they smoked. [/quote]
No it isn’t.

[quote]
There’s a mountain of evidence about the harm any amount of physical punishment does to children.[/quote]

Where. There are generations of people that were raised with some form of physical discipline and a heck of a lot of them are just fine.

Ah sorry some of the links are broken. Here are updated links to the metaanalysis studies.

http://www.utexas.edu/know/2009/09/21/elizabeth_gershoff

127

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Yeah, I keep double tapping, lol. The trigger I got is shockingly awesome for $60 and has almost no creep from reset to full extension, so the muscle memory of “take out the slack, hold and fire” keeps me double tapping, which is a no-no at the bench shooting range… Action pit it’s fine.[/quote]

Ya, most placed don’t like doubt taps or quick fire drills, which is bs.

[quote]
The trigger on my Mossberg has no difference between reset and no tension. It comes back to the same spot, and is fucking mint. [/quote]

Nice. I’ve got a Mossberg and am a big fan.

128

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
You have no evidence that physical punishment is a very effective tool. [/quote]
Sure you do. Every person that was physically punished (spanked) and turned out a well adjusted adult is evidence that it was effective.

[quote]
You had no way of knowing whether your children would be negatively effected in the way that a mountain of evidence suggest children overall are effected. [/quote]

What mountain of evidence. The end of your video had a website, which had a bunch of links half of which didn’t even work. Where is the research?

[quote]
Further, you have no evidence that your children would not have turned out BETTER if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting. [/quote]

And you would also have no evidence that children would not have turned out WORSE if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting.

[quote]
Saying that your children turned out well due to physical punishment is like saying that the 2/3 of smokers that don’t die from smoking turned out well because they smoked. [/quote]
No it isn’t.

[quote]
There’s a mountain of evidence about the harm any amount of physical punishment does to children.[/quote]

Where. There are generations of people that were raised with some form of physical discipline and a heck of a lot of them are just fine.

Plenty of smokers also turned out just fine. That is an illogical argument since there is irrefutable proof that smoking is bad for your health.

129

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Yeah, I keep double tapping, lol. The trigger I got is shockingly awesome for $60 and has almost no creep from reset to full extension, so the muscle memory of “take out the slack, hold and fire” keeps me double tapping, which is a no-no at the bench shooting range… Action pit it’s fine.[/quote]

Ya, most placed don’t like doubt taps or quick fire drills, which is bs. [/quote]

Just that particular portion of the range. It’s for bench shooting, no rapid fire. I can drive over to the pits and mag dump into car door if I want to, lol. My club is the best.

[quote]

[quote]
The trigger on my Mossberg has no difference between reset and no tension. It comes back to the same spot, and is fucking mint. [/quote]

Nice. I’ve got a Mossberg and am a big fan. [/quote]

I’ve got an MVP in 556, and might pick up their new Patriot in 308 or some crazy new caliber, now that I have my loading bench all set up.

http://www.mossberg.com/products/rifles/centerfire/mossberg-patriot-rifle

I love the trigger. I’m really becoming a Mossberg and Ruger fanboy…

130

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
You have no evidence that physical punishment is a very effective tool. [/quote]
Sure you do. Every person that was physically punished (spanked) and turned out a well adjusted adult is evidence that it was effective.

[quote]
You had no way of knowing whether your children would be negatively effected in the way that a mountain of evidence suggest children overall are effected. [/quote]

What mountain of evidence. The end of your video had a website, which had a bunch of links half of which didn’t even work. Where is the research?

[quote]
Further, you have no evidence that your children would not have turned out BETTER if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting. [/quote]

And you would also have no evidence that children would not have turned out WORSE if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting.

[quote]
Saying that your children turned out well due to physical punishment is like saying that the 2/3 of smokers that don’t die from smoking turned out well because they smoked. [/quote]
No it isn’t.

[quote]
There’s a mountain of evidence about the harm any amount of physical punishment does to children.[/quote]

Where. There are generations of people that were raised with some form of physical discipline and a heck of a lot of them are just fine.

Ah sorry some of the links are broken. Here are updated links to the metaanalysis studies.
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/101/4/723.full.pdf
http://www.utexas.edu/know/2009/09/21/elizabeth_gershoff[/quote]

I will take time tomorrow to read your links, which once again are not to research…

However, I will say a quick Google search provides the exact opposite.

131

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
You have no evidence that physical punishment is a very effective tool. [/quote]
Sure you do. Every person that was physically punished (spanked) and turned out a well adjusted adult is evidence that it was effective.

[quote]
You had no way of knowing whether your children would be negatively effected in the way that a mountain of evidence suggest children overall are effected. [/quote]

What mountain of evidence. The end of your video had a website, which had a bunch of links half of which didn’t even work. Where is the research?

[quote]
Further, you have no evidence that your children would not have turned out BETTER if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting. [/quote]

And you would also have no evidence that children would not have turned out WORSE if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting.

[quote]
Saying that your children turned out well due to physical punishment is like saying that the 2/3 of smokers that don’t die from smoking turned out well because they smoked. [/quote]
No it isn’t.

[quote]
There’s a mountain of evidence about the harm any amount of physical punishment does to children.[/quote]

Where. There are generations of people that were raised with some form of physical discipline and a heck of a lot of them are just fine.

Plenty of smokers also turned out just fine. That is an illogical argument since there is irrefutable proof that smoking is bad for your health.[/quote]

They are two entirely different things.

132

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
You have no evidence that physical punishment is a very effective tool. [/quote]
Sure you do. Every person that was physically punished (spanked) and turned out a well adjusted adult is evidence that it was effective.

[quote]
You had no way of knowing whether your children would be negatively effected in the way that a mountain of evidence suggest children overall are effected. [/quote]

What mountain of evidence. The end of your video had a website, which had a bunch of links half of which didn’t even work. Where is the research?

[quote]
Further, you have no evidence that your children would not have turned out BETTER if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting. [/quote]

And you would also have no evidence that children would not have turned out WORSE if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting.

[quote]
Saying that your children turned out well due to physical punishment is like saying that the 2/3 of smokers that don’t die from smoking turned out well because they smoked. [/quote]
No it isn’t.

[quote]
There’s a mountain of evidence about the harm any amount of physical punishment does to children.[/quote]

Where. There are generations of people that were raised with some form of physical discipline and a heck of a lot of them are just fine.

Plenty of smokers also turned out just fine. That is an illogical argument since there is irrefutable proof that smoking is bad for your health.[/quote]

They are two entirely different things. [/quote]
How are they different logically?
Tell me how the logic doesn’t follow.

133

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
You have no evidence that physical punishment is a very effective tool. [/quote]
Sure you do. Every person that was physically punished (spanked) and turned out a well adjusted adult is evidence that it was effective.

[quote]
You had no way of knowing whether your children would be negatively effected in the way that a mountain of evidence suggest children overall are effected. [/quote]

What mountain of evidence. The end of your video had a website, which had a bunch of links half of which didn’t even work. Where is the research?

[quote]
Further, you have no evidence that your children would not have turned out BETTER if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting. [/quote]

And you would also have no evidence that children would not have turned out WORSE if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting.

[quote]
Saying that your children turned out well due to physical punishment is like saying that the 2/3 of smokers that don’t die from smoking turned out well because they smoked. [/quote]
No it isn’t.

This is a metanalyses by the American Academy of pediatrics with 32 research source some of which are meta-studies themselves.
There isn’t a bigger collection of research anywhere else on the subject.
There is about as much research in the officially reccommendations on smoking by the AMA.

You’re comparing this to “a quick google search”?!
How absurd in your “qualifications” for research can you possibly get?

134

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

How absurd in your “qualifications” for research can you possibly get?
[/quote]

Yeah I mean, it isn’t like he babysat his nephew, watched couple youtubes and read a webpage and now thinks he knows how to parent…

I mean, right? Who does USMC think he is?

135

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
You have no evidence that physical punishment is a very effective tool. [/quote]
Sure you do. Every person that was physically punished (spanked) and turned out a well adjusted adult is evidence that it was effective.

[quote]
You had no way of knowing whether your children would be negatively effected in the way that a mountain of evidence suggest children overall are effected. [/quote]

What mountain of evidence. The end of your video had a website, which had a bunch of links half of which didn’t even work. Where is the research?

[quote]
Further, you have no evidence that your children would not have turned out BETTER if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting. [/quote]

And you would also have no evidence that children would not have turned out WORSE if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting.

[quote]
Saying that your children turned out well due to physical punishment is like saying that the 2/3 of smokers that don’t die from smoking turned out well because they smoked. [/quote]
No it isn’t.

[quote]
There’s a mountain of evidence about the harm any amount of physical punishment does to children.[/quote]

Where. There are generations of people that were raised with some form of physical discipline and a heck of a lot of them are just fine.

Plenty of smokers also turned out just fine. That is an illogical argument since there is irrefutable proof that smoking is bad for your health.[/quote]

They are two entirely different things. [/quote]
How are they different logically?
Tell me how the logic doesn’t follow.[/quote]

There are vast quantities of research and damn near a damn near medical consensus that smoking leads to lung cancer. You have nothing even remotely close to the same thing in regards to physical discipline.

You are trying compare apples to oranges.

136

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:
You have no evidence that physical punishment is a very effective tool. [/quote]
Sure you do. Every person that was physically punished (spanked) and turned out a well adjusted adult is evidence that it was effective.

[quote]
You had no way of knowing whether your children would be negatively effected in the way that a mountain of evidence suggest children overall are effected. [/quote]

What mountain of evidence. The end of your video had a website, which had a bunch of links half of which didn’t even work. Where is the research?

[quote]
Further, you have no evidence that your children would not have turned out BETTER if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting. [/quote]

And you would also have no evidence that children would not have turned out WORSE if you had invested the time and effort in learning and executing alternative means of parenting.

I said I’d read it, Jesus. At quick glace I see a bunch words like; might, maybe, and could, etc…

I also like to actually see the research because, call me crazy, organization have their own bias and agenda.

I know the American Academy on Pediatric, whoever they are, are for an assault weapons ban per that quick search. Which has nothing to do with this topic, but is still telling.

137

My wife works for the AAP and they are very far left (she is not and to here her tell stories).

They are very liberal in all ways and probably prompted the ban on Human Targeting.

139

End of the day, the only people that really “know” how to be a parent, are the people without kids.

Everyone with kids just does the best they can, loves and teaches them the best they can, and kind of just takes each day as it comes.