T Nation

The USA: A Dictatorship!


#1

The USA officially and secretly declared dictatorship (patriot act 2)

Patriot Act 2 (had to edit it it said patriotic act 2 before)

I thought the USA were a free country. How did it happen that everybody said yes to a dictatorship by the very definition. There is no amendment 2,4,5,7 any more. Practically anyone can be called a terrorist now and be locked away or murdered by will. FEMA, Homeland Security and George W. Bush now call all the shots.
What is really going on in New Orleans?
What really happend 9/11? Remember this no longer is conspiracy talk, what are you gonna do about this everyone?


#2

What basis do you have for these statements? Your sensationalization of these events can only be characterized as "conspiracy theory." 9/11 being something more than a terrorist action? That is digging deep into the well.


#3

Read the patriotic act 1,2. Read it.


#4

I've read the first patriot act, the way it was framed I had no problem with it. If you would go back and read it, in the context that the regulations are proposed, it is a fairly sound bit of legislation...the only problem is the room for abuses as law enforcement will do all they can in the framework they are given to capture bad guys, and I'm sure eventually the leeway given them would be used in an improper fashion. But the spirit of the legislation is not bad, giving greater room for law enforcement in realms of wiretaps and internet searches. I think it's fairly amusing that a student in Germany is seeking to stir the pot with this one, I think you've been frequenting too many conspiracy theory websites.


#5

This statement:

and this statement

would seem to contradict each other.

You recognize that there can be an abuse of power, yet this hasn't phased you in any way as far as the act that makes it possible? Fear of a terror attack rates higher to you than freedom or privacy? Do you really think that this will only be used against "bad guys" in the future? Our own judicial system isn't even above making mistakes in judgement and they ahve many checks and balances.


#6

P2 is very different from P1 and is rather concerning in my opinion.

What to do? Hell if I know. Just do everything in your power to elect the best politicians in your local state. Most people put way to much focus on our President, while the truly important political figures are those in our home states.


#7

"Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither."

And, it's the USA PATRIOT act, chucklehead. There's nothing at all patriotic about this law.

It's actually an incredibly forced acronym. (Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism)


#8

Geesh, no break for people who speak English as asecond language?


#9

They do. I don't feel that the way they are written is wrong, but the way they might be enforced is...I guess I didn't really express myself properly..Dr. Phil and I are working on that.


#10

Funny thing is know the grammar

It is a freakin name c'mon man.
Patriot act, Patriotic Act, could be either way and now you talk like i don't know english man.

The point is i wouldn't be afraid of Osama Bin Laden (bin Ladin, ben Ladin, ben ladin) getting me from his cage and it is rather disturbing to see that Congressmen were being forced to sign the Act without sorting it through or any kind of dicussion. It says on it it is not supposed to be shown to the public, that is why noone sees it.

http://www.sacurrent.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10705756&BRD=2318&PAG=461&dept_id=482778&rfi=6

By the way, there is no need to go to conspiracy sites any longer. There have been 600 movies made so far showing the WTC, Oklahoma were inside jobs in fact. The "theorists" use CNN footage and world renowned specialists.

Here is what Patriot Act 2 contains:

*
  establishment of a national ID card, disguised as national standardization of drivers licensing;
*
  establishment of a national electronic database for birth and death certificates, with permanent identifying information assigned to each individual, such as a national ID number;
*
  biometric identifiers - including fingerprints, face recognition software photos, iris or retinal scans, and other private physical identification - for travel documents which would be used for security in domestic air travel as well as overseas travel;
*
  expanded secret eavesdropping and search powers to be used against individuals suspected of terrorist activity, whether or not the individual is associated with a foreign power;
*
  further weakening of individual privacy rights in library, medical, and other personal records, removing all federal court oversight;
*
  enhanced "material support" provisions, allowing guilt by association with a group targeted by the administration; removal of habeas corpus relief for those detained under repressive immigration measures;
*
  approval of automatic detention without bail in immigration matters at the government's request;
*
  increased secrecy in immigration court matters;
*
  approval of the use of secret evidence in immigration courts - secret even to the immigrant being examined;
*
  deportation of immigrants before final appeal;

*
  allowing the death penalty in terrorism cases (with "terrorism" as defined in the USA PATRIOT Act);
*
  explicit approval of transfer of prisoners suspected of terrorism to nations known to practice torture; and
*
  failure to provide for a cross-agency civil liberties board for oversight and investigation of civil liberties practices and procedures in the executive branch of the federal government.

You know, this is exactly what happend in Germany when Hitler got to power. Oh its not? It is necassary for the fight against Osama the guy in his cave in Afghanistan? Ask the people of New Orleans what a great job FEMA is doing in "protecting them" like cutting power lines and the like. The red cross is still not allowed in the city. A german plane with 15 tons of food has been turned away on the second day of this. All they needed was permission. they would have been able to drop 1 day packages for about 15000 people. The radio in New Orleans is not allowed to function, etc.

You see your rights are not being taken away to fight foreigners and terrorist, you government fights your own people. Weren't those people made homeless called swing voters before the Florida scandal? This is of course another unconnected incident. Has nothing to do with George Bush's statement: "Well, if this was a dictatorship things would be a hell of a lot easier, that's for sure" Well it's easy now. I can write about that here, but actually information gathering whether it is legal or illegal info doesn't matter is illegal right now under the law of the USA.

If you for example put up PA2 here, you could be called a terrorist. You could be taken away. They would not have to inform your family. You have no civil rights then. You can be taken out of the country. They could interogate (spelling correct i dunno) you, hurt you, kill you. It is legal by the law of your wonderful former free country.

And don't get me wrong i am on here, because i read that stuff and i love America. I love basketball, football, barbecue, american people, Tahoe, Vegas, Cali, i love L.A. and Arden Mall and the american way of live. You people are great and so is this site. I just want to make the public aware before they set up more concentration camps like pier 95 was it i think in New York where they put protesters and people taking video of the Area around WTC legally. I've seen these disturbing pictures and i am of the opinion you should always listen to everybody and then draw your own conclusions. I never went to conspiracy sites until i heard about firemen swearing WTC was brought down by bombs and the like.

Those are americas real heroes and they lose their jobs for that. FBI agents loosing their jobs, because they ask questions. Congreesmen pressured to keep their mouths shut, CNN not showing what's going on. Evidence enough to check it out and what i found was not manipulated video but questions that need answers. No answers given though only rights being taken from the scared people. I am no communist by any stretch or anything, in fact i am a christian conservative but i am convinced that america is in a state of dictatorship and i am very worried.

Americans should just look at the facts themselves and talk about that and not shut up.


#11

Before any of the sleepers chime in with tin foil talk and condescending bs, I just wanted to say that this was a nice post and I wish more people would pipe up and take notice at what is going on with our civil liberties and where this great nation, that I love, is sliding to.


#12

Sorry, nobody over here is allowed to ask questions anymore... it is unpatriotic and is likely to have the government requesting all the books you've read since childhood.

Long Live the President!


#13

I have little faith in die hard "Bush fans" being able to discuss the possible problems and the negative outcomes. The reason? I was saying the same thing on this forum back when Patriot Act I was all we knew about. It seemed most of the responses then were in denial to some degree. You can go back and read the responses (Just type Patriot Act into the search engine).

We are losing out in this country based on "fear" and it seems many are all too ready to just give up freedoms and privacy as if they aren't valuable at all.


#14

over here?--Canada?

It is not only the President

Patriot 1 was approved by all but 2 U.S. Senators. Not trying to deflect blame, it certainly was backed by the admin. just let's keep the focus on the issue which is giving up freedoms for security.

Let me re-phrase before the shit hits the fan

The perception of gaining security by giving up freedoms.

And please--don't anyone quote Ben Franklin again.


#15

Vroom i usually love your posts, but you should understand you are being deceived here. Know anybody in N.O.? Call them. Listen to what they got to say.

Let's not go down the conpiracy road here.

This is not fiction. This is fact.

"Long live the president?"

The guy that can't hold a book upright? That guy that has never been seen in a class in Yale? The guy who has never been in the military but runs around in uniform all the time like Mao Tse Tung did? The "we will chase them down in the name of the lord" guy? The guy that didn't help the victims of 9/11 and now Katrina. The guy that gets more and more power to fight war after war doing nothing but getting more power stripping you of your rights and having loyal great kids killed. The military personel in Afghanistan and Iraq that is.

Do you believe you are being threatened by Al Queada? Do you belive the U.S. were defenseless before all these new laws you been tricked into believing you need? Then you deserve nothing but what you are about to get. I liked you man...i wanted to move out to america as soon as i'm done in university...if people think like you and act like sheep...this side of the world might be gone by then though...

Your money goes into funding U.S. military in Asia now. Already 5 times the amount of money used in the years before. troops are being stationed everywhere in Asia right now, the very troops you would think are needed in Iraq, so that the troops you need in New Orleans would be there. Instead you got blackwater mercenaries in N.O., reserve being killed in Iraq and fighting troops pulled from Afghanistan and send to Asia just to wait.

You are working on a mini A-bomb right now. 200 Million dollars have just been approved. The use of this bomb is basically decided already because in the history of the world no new weapon has not been used so far. Also it is legal by your very laws right now to use it without declaring the state of war or informing the public and that will happen.

Why do you think Israel is giving up the thing they worked on the most. Almost 40 years of occupation and now they get out of there like they need the personel for something bigger then Palistina. Mossad is probably the better CIA for your information. A thing believed impossible for so long happens without any reasons being given to the people.

The U.S. guy in the UNO stated a couple month ago. That was not it. They will go after 6 more countries and take out terrorism one by one if they do not obey. These countries include north korea.

You still think it's a joke? You think the president needs more power than a factual dictatorship? You really believe you need more oil wars to preserve america's position in the world? You think offensive a-bombs are a good thing too? The departement of homeland security is needed and should be given the power to control FBI CIA and the police while the president controls the army, oh and coincidently the president is really the head of Homeland security, too. Do you believe in demovracy at all?


#16

The atmosphere in government seems to be that many politicians appear to be afraid of "going against the grain" on ANY decision lately because of what it can mean years down the road during political events. Having someone dig up "dirt" on you claiming that this or that senator didn't like America because they didn't want to protect her through the Patriot At would seem to be the tactic used...at least if we go by the trash talking of this past election. That is one reason I think this country is fucking up in terms of a two party system. We don't even have that anymore.

We have a shit load of republicans and a flaccid group of democrats who seem to be afraid to speak their minds anymore (if they even have anything of value in them) with a lot of loud talking publicity hounds on both extremes. There is no more "middle ground". I think anyone looking at this as if it is a good thing is retarded.


#17

Tube Steak Boogie.

When you start posting complete and utter bullshit like this, it invalidates all your crazy political opinions.


#18

Nice paraphrase. And you're correct. Taking away any constituional rights for anything is wrong. It's a mistake to give big brother anymore power to control our live.


#19

Prof

No arguments here on your analysis of voting records. A vote against Patriot could be used against a potential candidate. The 2 party system is failing us at every turn. When and who was the last free thinking senator around. It has all become follow the party line and perception over reality.

I'm not agreeing with the Patriot act by mentioning voting records. I believe in my senator Mr. Feingold who was a dissenter.

I have, however, not read either Act in its fullness. I find it hard to believe anyone has. In fact I question those who say they have. But our freedoms should be fought for and in fact are being fought for and it just doesn't seem right to then give them up so easily and without reason.


#20

Second

motion carried
you're an idiot