[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
How actually great this show ends up being is entirely dependent on how it winds up being tied together. To this point it is EXTREMELY intriguing because of what they continue to keep just out of reach. If all this ties up ingeniously it’ll be a genuine classic. If it ends with some hobbled together conclusions I’ll feel like they were keeping me tagging along with cheap on the fly plot tricks.
I think they’ve done well enough so far to still make this a classic. X-Files ended badly considering where it seemed to headed. You still can’t take away the peak 3-4 years that it was running. I was expecting even more far out conclusions to this stuff but they keep tying it off nicely. The addition of “future flashbacks” means they can go anywhere they want with this. I really don’t see how they can explain that smoke monster though.
Then again, I haven’t seen the new season at all.[/quote]
Fair enough, especially since you’re right about the X-Files too. I loved the first 3 seasons of Lost and the first installment of season 4 was as good as could be hoped for. Hell, I don’t remember the last time I set an alarm to not forget a TV show. Maybe it’s because the X-Files did fizzle out and Firefly died off so grotesquely that I’m a bit trepidacious about how this is gonna end up. I love this kinda stuff, really.
Have no fear about those pesky smoke monsters though. They already managed to explain quite a bit that I didn’t see coming either. Don’t forget, they were in the first episode, or maybe second, so they must figure pretty prominently in there somewhere.
I also really like the fact that they cast all (just about) fairly unknown players so as to avoid any preconceived ideas from other roles. It helps really see the actors as the characters they play. Firefly was the same.
We’ve got Sayiid doing contract hits for Ben Linus in a flash forward now? So far their doing a great job getting me to tune in next week. I have em all captured and saved for possible future reference.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Last night’s episode was really good and has all kinds of theories going around my head.[/quote]
I loved last nights episode - I think it was the best one in awhile. Really had me going.
I still get nervous watching LOST though. I don’t entirely trust Abramms not to be an ass and get bored with the show and move onto something else.
I mean, I watched Alias the first two seasons and it was the best thing on TV. The third season came, and everything went downhill. The fourth season was so horrible that the audience dropped to almost nothing, and everyone watched the last season out of sympathy.
Abramms excuse - I got bored with it, moved to LOST.
PS - in case no one noticed, first two seasons of Alias are great (and cheap on ebay).
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Last night’s episode was really good and has all kinds of theories going around my head.[/quote]
Honestly, it was one of the best…aside from the episode where the school teacher blew up carrying dynamite. If they can add a little more science into it the show will only get better.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Last night’s episode was really good and has all kinds of theories going around my head.[/quote]
Kind of sucks that Hume now no longer remembers all his other journeys back and forth through the past. And what happens when/if Hume in 2004 dies? Obviously, for there to be a Hume in 2004, there is continuity for the 1996 Hume for 8 years. So does he just end up full time as the old Hume? If so, does the old Hume remember what happens in the future? Or is it a separate consciousness? Is that why the memory loss is necessary, so that the future happens the same way?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Last night’s episode was really good and has all kinds of theories going around my head.
Honestly, it was one of the best…aside from the episode where the school teacher blew up carrying dynamite. If they can add a little more science into it the show will only get better.[/quote]
Yeah, I agree. I like the scientific bent that it’s turning towards.
The whole time travel thing stirs up all the same logical conundrums every time it occurs, to address what Nephorm is saying. The one that always kills it off for me is the idea of there being more than one instance of any given entity. If there can be even 2 then what’s to stop there from being one for each moment in time, however that’s defined?
[quote]nephorm wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Last night’s episode was really good and has all kinds of theories going around my head.
Kind of sucks that Hume now no longer remembers all his other journeys back and forth through the past. And what happens when/if Hume in 2004 dies? Obviously, for there to be a Hume in 2004, there is continuity for the 1996 Hume for 8 years. So does he just end up full time as the old Hume? If so, does the old Hume remember what happens in the future? Or is it a separate consciousness? Is that why the memory loss is necessary, so that the future happens the same way?[/quote]
Yeah, flashes back and forward are one thing, but to bring in aspects of time travel (Desmond’s ability to influence the past) is a slippery slope, imo. I think last nights episode is the best one in the series…ever. That said, the time travel and Desmond’s effect on Penny and Faraday–not to mention his 1996 consciousness–creates all kinds of continuity problems.
If we are assuming that people from the 1996 reality are effected by the visit from 'future ’ Desmond (which is clearly the case, because Penny and Faraday both had their 2004 consciousness effected), then it must be assumed that Desmond has also had his consciousness effected. So why would he still have gone on his expedition, and end up on the island to begin with, if he knew the results of the trip?
As I said, it’s a slippery slope, and while I should just avoid all thoughts about this continuity issue, it’s hard to discount.
[quote]Hambone1818 wrote:
If we are assuming that people from the 1996 reality are effected by the visit from 'future ’ Desmond (which is clearly the case, because Penny and Faraday both had their 2004 consciousness effected), then it must be assumed that Desmond has also had his consciousness effected. So why would he still have gone on his expedition, and end up on the island to begin with, if he knew the results of the trip?
[/quote]
We already addressed that in a previous episode - Desmond was back in time, and he was going to choose differently. Someone in the past convinced him that it was essential that he not change the future. And of course, this is also quite confusing: Desmond has already been in the past, prior to 1996. So, what, his earlier self continued on, having forgotten that there was an intervention from his future self?
[quote]Hambone1818 wrote:
nephorm wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Last night’s episode was really good and has all kinds of theories going around my head.
Kind of sucks that Hume now no longer remembers all his other journeys back and forth through the past. And what happens when/if Hume in 2004 dies? Obviously, for there to be a Hume in 2004, there is continuity for the 1996 Hume for 8 years. So does he just end up full time as the old Hume? If so, does the old Hume remember what happens in the future? Or is it a separate consciousness? Is that why the memory loss is necessary, so that the future happens the same way?
Yeah, flashes back and forward are one thing, but to bring in aspects of time travel (Desmond’s ability to influence the past) is a slippery slope, imo. I think last nights episode is the best one in the series…ever. That said, the time travel and Desmond’s effect on Penny and Faraday–not to mention his 1996 consciousness–creates all kinds of continuity problems.
If we are assuming that people from the 1996 reality are effected by the visit from 'future ’ Desmond (which is clearly the case, because Penny and Faraday both had their 2004 consciousness effected), then it must be assumed that Desmond has also had his consciousness effected. So why would he still have gone on his expedition, and end up on the island to begin with, if he knew the results of the trip?
As I said, it’s a slippery slope, and while I should just avoid all thoughts about this continuity issue, it’s hard to discount. [/quote]
Good post…but I don’t think 1996 Desmond is even aware of a trip at this point.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
We already addressed that in a previous episode - Desmond was back in time, and he was going to choose differently. Someone in the past convinced him that it was essential that he not change the future. And of course, this is also quite confusing: Desmond has already been in the past, prior to 1996. So, what, his earlier self continued on, having forgotten that there was an intervention from his future self? [/quote]
True, I had completely forgotten about that previous episode. It doesn’t mitigate the time travel issue in my eyes, though. There is a clear continuity issue at play, and here’s what I’m talking about: if Desmond knew, in 1996, of the results of his decisions, wouldn’t that change everything leading up to those decisions? Wouldn’t he remember Sayid when they first met on the island, and further, already know that on December 24th, 2004 he would have to remember Penny’s number in order to survive the effects of the disconnect that his body was going through? Wouldn’t he remember what the helicopter ride did to effect him, and avoid it altogether–thus breaking the continuity once again, because if he never took the helicopter ride he wouldn’t have known about its detrimental effects?
Anyway, as I said before it’d probably be best to not get into the philosophical and metaphysical aspects of a television show, but that’s the way my mind works and I can’t seem to help it. I will, however, continue to say that despite the issues it raises it was the most entertaining episode of this show I’ve seen.
[quote]Hambone1818 wrote:
nephorm wrote:
We already addressed that in a previous episode - Desmond was back in time, and he was going to choose differently. Someone in the past convinced him that it was essential that he not change the future. And of course, this is also quite confusing: Desmond has already been in the past, prior to 1996. So, what, his earlier self continued on, having forgotten that there was an intervention from his future self?
True, I had completely forgotten about that previous episode. It doesn’t mitigate the time travel issue in my eyes, though. There is a clear continuity issue at play, and here’s what I’m talking about: if Desmond knew, in 1996, of the results of his decisions, wouldn’t that change everything leading up to those decisions? Wouldn’t he remember Sayid when they first met on the island, and further, already know that on December 24th, 2004 he would have to remember Penny’s number in order to survive the effects of the disconnect that his body was going through? Wouldn’t he remember what the helicopter ride did to effect him, and avoid it altogether–thus breaking the continuity once again, because if he never took the helicopter ride he wouldn’t have known about its detrimental effects?
Anyway, as I said before it’d probably be best to not get into the philosophical and metaphysical aspects of a television show, but that’s the way my mind works and I can’t seem to help it. I will, however, continue to say that despite the issues it raises it was the most entertaining episode of this show I’ve seen.
[/quote]
I think the issue you keep bringing up is circumvented by the loss of memory. First, Desmond in 1996 doesn’t know the true outcome of his actions. He only has bits and pieces but not enough to stop him from his trip around the world which landed him on that island. We also don’t know what the hell happened to “present Desmond” as he apparently just disappeared from existence. If this is written well enough, they could tie up those loose ends.
Also, I am sure this is exactly what the writers wanted…people talking about what the hell happened.
I think the issue you keep bringing up is circumvented by the loss of memory. First, Desmond in 1996 doesn’t know the true outcome of his actions. He only has bits and pieces but not enough to stop him from his trip around the world which landed him on that island. We also don’t know what the hell happened to “present Desmond” as he apparently just disappeared from existence. If this is written well enough, they could tie up those loose ends.
Also, I am sure this is exactly what the writers wanted…people talking about what the hell happened.[/quote]
That’s all very true. Let’s just hope, as fans of the show (the best show–thus far–that I’ve ever watched) that Abrams and co. manage to tie everything together in a neat little knot. As of now, it’s fantastic to tear the show apart and try to figure out what’s happened from the present time on the island to the future where we’re seeing Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Aaron and Ben. However, to get from the present to the future–and beyond, even–is where the true genius of the show will (hopefully) reveal itself.
How bout Jack’s flash forward at the end of last season where he meets Kate at the airport and is driving himself nuts trying to get crashed on the island again and then when he meets Hurley in the gym he says nobody’s ever going back and with an attitude like that’s how it should be even though Hurley does want to go back. And what was it he doesn’t want Hurley talking about? Maybe something having to do with his testimony at Kate’s trial.
Why is Kate’s son named Aaron which is Claire’s son’s name and while were probably assuming it would be Sawyers, assumption is never a safe bet with this show. Also Jack doesn’t want to have anything to with him, which depending on what else is going on could go either way. Actually he could be Claire’s son.
Why is Sayiid doing contract hits for Ben Linus for God’s sake and who is Ben Linus answering to.
Let’s not forget Charlie, he says he’s dead, but with the time travel element now anything,s possible with him.
How bout Walt, haven’t seen him for a while and his father? Who knows. Shannon, Boone, Mr.Ecko? Hell, Vincent the dog is still around.
The smoke monsters showed up right from day one and we still have practically zero of what they’re about.
Sorry I hijacked the discussion here, but I got thinking after I started and it’s tough to stop, but I had to because there’s still tons of other stuff.
I think Kate’s Aaron is Claire’s son. I think that Jack doesn’t want to see him either because he finds out that Claire is his half sister and/or something terrible happens to Claire as a result of a decision made by Jack which results in Kate adopting Aaron.
My wife pointed out that the phsychic told Claire that bad things will happen if she doesn’t raise Aaron. If that is the same Aaron are we going to find out what those bad things are or is it going to be a loose end that doesn’t get tied up in the end?
[quote]bpeck wrote:
I think Kate’s Aaron is Claire’s son. I think that Jack doesn’t want to see him either because he finds out that Claire is his half sister and/or something terrible happens to Claire as a result of a decision made by Jack which results in Kate adopting Aaron.
My wife pointed out that the phsychic told Claire that bad things will happen if she doesn’t raise Aaron. If that is the same Aaron are we going to find out what those bad things are or is it going to be a loose end that doesn’t get tied up in the end?