heath_watts presented a peer-reviewed article that challenges your notion of soy.
All you offered was snide remarks. Could we please maintain some civility here?
If we have nothing positive to say, then perhaps we should leave it unsaid.
Great article Mr. Wilson. I especially enjoyed your objective approach.
I feel isoflavones can be used as a SERM
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As noted above by @cyclonengineer:
“Mark Messina has a conflict of interest. Dr. Messina regularly consults for companies that manufacture and/or sell soy products. Mindy Kurzer is on the scientific advisory board of the Soy Nutrition Institute.”
He wouldn’t respond to my question, then went on the be the Soy Defender by telling me i don’t look like i lift. This man (@heath_watts) is also at least 51 years old acting like this, but you’re right - I’m the one in the wrong here for cracking a joke.
Let’s not forget he came out swinging: accosted T Nation and accused them of being funded by the dairy industry…then goes on to post a fairly recent paper published by folks who acknowledged in the paper that they have a serious stake in the success of the soy industry…
Seems a bit Harvey Dent.
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Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it. And I agree completely. The data are much stronger to support ER-beta agonism at more reasonable doses (e.g., 1 mg/kg isoflavones–0.25 to 0.75 mg/kg genistein in particular) while effects upon hormone levels likely require at least 1.5 to 2 mg/kg before small effects are seen and likely in only some individuals.
Andrewgen_Receptors I apologize for the delay in replying, as I log in sporadically. You bring up a valid point regarding conflicts of interest, which can indicate bias. However, that is not always a good rule of thumb. A decent meta analysis gathers relevant reference materials using filters that are (or should be) annotated in the paper. The pertinent data (with references) is presented to validate their thesis question(s). It is a intensive process that can easily take months to crank out.
So a researcher may need to garner whatever supporter they can for funding, often with the stipulation that the sponsor needs to accept whatever results the investigation finds.
We need to examine all the papers to enhance our skills separating the chaff from the grain. Too much unsponsored research is conducted primarily for getting published and as a bonus, eliciting an emotional response in media to spread their names across the country. While often well written, most the results are trash.
Back to your question, I do not know what financial interests they have with the soy market. Though I do feel soy has gotten a bad rap in the body building community, which I find incongruent with the sport. Having your ER filled with a weaker estrogen analogue than E2 is the basis of most SERMs.
Then there are the anticarcinogenic benefits. There are strong correlations that soy reduces breast and prostate cancers. Lots of papers on it. A friend says large amounts of soy keeps his BPH in check.
I believe heath_watts was being serious and wasn’t in the mood for kidding around. I am often that way on the forums, so I (usually) try to keep my big yap shut. Especially with the new people too lazy to search the forums or Google, let alone get some education under their belt. Thank you for the serious response back.
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