T Nation

The 'Thin Privilege'

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:
You can be fat and not be lazy. And being fat does not give other people the right, or in their minds, the responsibility, to approach you unsolicited and give you advice about how you should lead your life.

The bottom line is that BOTH sides of this argument conflate the health risks of obesity with a moral imperative to be a healthy weight. You can have all the opinions you like about the aesthetics of being fat, or the health risks associated with it; but those opinions do not give you the right to treat other people like crap. [/quote]

Agreed, but this article was ridiculous, wouldn’t you say? The premise that thin people have a privilege that fat people are not able to have is ridiculous.

In some cases that may be true, but the vast majority it is not. No one is stopping fat people from being thin, except themselves (for the vast majority of cases).[/quote]

^this.

It’s also interesting that several of the examples (5 6 and 7, probably others) are simply economic decisions made by private companies. If you’ve got a size of clothing that doesn’t sell as well as others, you’re not going to stock the shit out of it. And if you have to use extra material, you have to price it higher.

I have a sheet metal fabrication company. We make industrial dust collectors for drilling rigs. I’m imagining a customer telling me I should charge the same price for a 4000 lb dust collector as a 600 lb, because he can’t help it that his drill is so big. Absurd, right? This would obviously never happen.

I looked at the comments and most of them were at least semi-reasonable. Of course, you have your out-spoken food addicts allowing their addiction to speak for them. Just like any other addict whether it’s alcohol or narcotics.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
It’s also interesting that several of the examples (5 6 and 7, probably others) are simply economic decisions made by private companies. If you’ve got a size of clothing that doesn’t sell as well as others, you’re not going to stock the shit out of it. And if you have to use extra material, you have to price it higher.

I have a sheet metal fabrication company. We make industrial dust collectors for drilling rigs. I’m imagining a customer telling me I should charge the same price for a 4000 lb dust collector as a 600 lb, because he can’t help it that his drill is so big. Absurd, right? This would obviously never happen.[/quote]

Economic decisions can reflect privilege. The most obvious example is in contemporary discussions of racism, which are often about structural racism, rather than overt racist acts. The question of privilege is not whether some evil person is plotting to make others’ lives hell, but the way culture and institutions make life easier for some classes of people than others.

Acknowledging that privilege exists doesn’t mean you have to eliminate every example of it.You can agree that white privilege, or male privilege, or thin privilege exists, while maintaining that eliminating it would provide too little advantage and come at too high a cost.

[quote]nephorm wrote:
You can be fat and not be lazy. [/quote]

Yeah, big bones.

Sorry, every REALLY bad employee I’ve ever had was a fat ass.

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Agreed, but this article was ridiculous, wouldn’t you say? The premise that thin people have a privilege that fat people are not able to have is ridiculous.

In some cases that may be true, but the vast majority it is not. No one is stopping fat people from being thin, except themselves (for the vast majority of cases).[/quote]

I grew up with a mother who had legitimate health issues that caused her to be obese. I remember going clothes shopping with her. Every browse through the clothes rack was a reminder to her of her obesity. You might say that’s just too bad, and that there’s not an economic incentive to make a lot of clothes for very heavy people. I’d agree that companies should manufacture to the market, for the most part. But that doesn’t mean that the thin people who had no trouble getting clothes in their sizes weren’t privileged.

I also, by the way, remember people making nasty comments to her about her weight as she walked into stores. On numerous occasions. That’s not OK. And why do so many people think it is?

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
It’s also interesting that several of the examples (5 6 and 7, probably others) are simply economic decisions made by private companies. If you’ve got a size of clothing that doesn’t sell as well as others, you’re not going to stock the shit out of it. And if you have to use extra material, you have to price it higher.

I have a sheet metal fabrication company. We make industrial dust collectors for drilling rigs. I’m imagining a customer telling me I should charge the same price for a 4000 lb dust collector as a 600 lb, because he can’t help it that his drill is so big. Absurd, right? This would obviously never happen.[/quote]

Economic decisions can reflect privilege. The most obvious example is in contemporary discussions of racism, which are often about structural racism, rather than overt racist acts. The question of privilege is not whether some evil person is plotting to make others’ lives hell, but the way culture and institutions make life easier for some classes of people than others.

Acknowledging that privilege exists doesn’t mean you have to eliminate every example of it.You can agree that white privilege, or male privilege, or thin privilege exists, while maintaining that eliminating it would provide too little advantage and come at too high a cost.[/quote]

If a person is extremely tall and has to shop at a “Big and Tall” store or such, I think it is reasonable to expect to pay more for clothes, not because of being unprivileged, rather clothes will be more expensive due to the economy of scale of production. The same is true for clothes for the obese.

Should the clothing manufacturer have to absorb the cost of selling odd size clothes to keep the cost comparable to normal sizes?

I see you addressed my point in the previous post which was not up when I posted.

[quote]nephorm wrote:

Economic decisions can reflect privilege. The most obvious example is in contemporary discussions of racism, which are often about structural racism, rather than overt racist acts. The question of privilege is not whether some evil person is plotting to make others’ lives hell, but the way culture and institutions make life easier for some classes of people than others.

Acknowledging that privilege exists doesn’t mean you have to eliminate every example of it.You can agree that white privilege, or male privilege, or thin privilege exists, while maintaining that eliminating it would provide too little advantage and come at too high a cost.[/quote]

You’re not being rational. Please explain why a size 10 dress should be sold at the same price as a size 20 dress. Your argument about structured racism (which obviously exists, I’m certainly not disputing that) does not apply here. There is no reasonable economic structure in which a clothing manufacturer would sell a garment that is significantly more expensive to make at the same price they would sell a smaller garment that you can A) mass produce and B) requires less fabric.

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

Economic decisions can reflect privilege. The most obvious example is in contemporary discussions of racism, which are often about structural racism, rather than overt racist acts. The question of privilege is not whether some evil person is plotting to make others’ lives hell, but the way culture and institutions make life easier for some classes of people than others.

Acknowledging that privilege exists doesn’t mean you have to eliminate every example of it.You can agree that white privilege, or male privilege, or thin privilege exists, while maintaining that eliminating it would provide too little advantage and come at too high a cost.[/quote]

You’re not being rational. Please explain why a size 10 dress should be sold at the same price as a size 20 dress. Your argument about structured racism (which obviously exists, I’m certainly not disputing that) does not apply here. There is no reasonable economic structure in which a clothing manufacturer would sell a garment that is significantly more expensive to make at the same price they would sell a smaller garment that you can A) mass produce and B) requires less fabric.[/quote]

Neph specifically wrote that pointing out that a privilege exists does not mean you have to eliminate every example of it. I don’t think he’s making the argument that a size 20 should be the same price as a size 10.

Yeah, I’m not buying that racism and “fatism” are at all comparable.

It isn’t like you can choose what color your skin happens to be, and in the vast majority of cases, your body weight is the product of choice.

Physical and Mental health reasons for being obese aren’t that rampant.

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
Agreed, but this article was ridiculous, wouldn’t you say? The premise that thin people have a privilege that fat people are not able to have is ridiculous.

In some cases that may be true, but the vast majority it is not. No one is stopping fat people from being thin, except themselves (for the vast majority of cases).[/quote]

I grew up with a mother who had legitimate health issues that caused her to be obese. I remember going clothes shopping with her. Every browse through the clothes rack was a reminder to her of her obesity. You might say that’s just too bad, and that there’s not an economic incentive to make a lot of clothes for very heavy people. I’d agree that companies should manufacture to the market, for the most part. But that doesn’t mean that the thin people who had no trouble getting clothes in their sizes weren’t privileged.

I also, by the way, remember people making nasty comments to her about her weight as she walked into stores. On numerous occasions. That’s not OK. And why do so many people think it is?[/quote]

Whatever. I am 6’10" tall. Unless I want to wear basketball clothes I have had to wear clothes either I made (or when I was 14 my mom) or that I now have made.

Shoes (all custom) were a major budget item when growing up.

I didn’t bitch about manufactureres not making freak-show tall clothes. I am well aware I am a freak show and well aware it is my job to fit into society.

I didn’t bitch about “normal height” privilege or the stupid jokes about “the weather up there” or the fact I can’t fit into basically any car, let alone an airline seat.

I didn’t bitch about getting a waiver to join the the 5th Group (because i am too fucking tall) or the fact my kevlar basically covered about 2/3 of what it was supposed to cover, leaving me exposed to enemy fire. I just fucking bought my own kevlar, cut the vest and stuck the rest on the bottom with duct tape.

Now, there is not a damn thing I could do to stop growing.

99.99% of fat people just need to put the fucking fork down. It’s in their control.

[quote]nephorm wrote:
I also, by the way, remember people making nasty comments to her about her weight as she walked into stores. On numerous occasions. That’s not OK. And why do so many people think it is?[/quote]

Is there a difference, in your mind, between someone making a nasty comment to your mother specifically and someone making a nasty comment about the obese population in general?

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

Economic decisions can reflect privilege. The most obvious example is in contemporary discussions of racism, which are often about structural racism, rather than overt racist acts. The question of privilege is not whether some evil person is plotting to make others’ lives hell, but the way culture and institutions make life easier for some classes of people than others.

Acknowledging that privilege exists doesn’t mean you have to eliminate every example of it.You can agree that white privilege, or male privilege, or thin privilege exists, while maintaining that eliminating it would provide too little advantage and come at too high a cost.[/quote]

You’re not being rational. Please explain why a size 10 dress should be sold at the same price as a size 20 dress. Your argument about structured racism (which obviously exists, I’m certainly not disputing that) does not apply here. There is no reasonable economic structure in which a clothing manufacturer would sell a garment that is significantly more expensive to make at the same price they would sell a smaller garment that you can A) mass produce and B) requires less fabric.[/quote]

Neph specifically wrote that pointing out that a privilege exists does not mean you have to eliminate every example of it. I don’t think he’s making the argument that a size 20 should be the same price as a size 10.
[/quote]

Yeah, but that isn’t an example of privilege.

Saying “thin people have more access to cloths so therefore racist, oops I mean privilege”

is like saying “Math comes easy to some people and they get paid a lot of money to develop weapon systems for the government, so therefore privilege. boo hoo”

or “Baseball comes to Derek Jeter naturally, so privilege, and I should be respected for my abseball talents too.”

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
Fat people (by which I mean obese, not lose a few lbs, or even 30 lbs) are overwhelmingly lazy or have pyschological issues.

If I could, I would not hire fat people, but apparently thats illegal now.[/quote]

How can you get in trouble for that? Ideally you interview more people than you hire so the reason you don’t hire someone is just you preferred someone else.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

Economic decisions can reflect privilege. The most obvious example is in contemporary discussions of racism, which are often about structural racism, rather than overt racist acts. The question of privilege is not whether some evil person is plotting to make others’ lives hell, but the way culture and institutions make life easier for some classes of people than others.

Acknowledging that privilege exists doesn’t mean you have to eliminate every example of it.You can agree that white privilege, or male privilege, or thin privilege exists, while maintaining that eliminating it would provide too little advantage and come at too high a cost.[/quote]

You’re not being rational. Please explain why a size 10 dress should be sold at the same price as a size 20 dress. Your argument about structured racism (which obviously exists, I’m certainly not disputing that) does not apply here. There is no reasonable economic structure in which a clothing manufacturer would sell a garment that is significantly more expensive to make at the same price they would sell a smaller garment that you can A) mass produce and B) requires less fabric.[/quote]

Neph specifically wrote that pointing out that a privilege exists does not mean you have to eliminate every example of it. I don’t think he’s making the argument that a size 20 should be the same price as a size 10.
[/quote]

Yeah, but that isn’t an example of privilege.

Saying “thin people have more access to cloths so therefore racist, oops I mean privilege”

is like saying “Math comes easy to some people and they get paid a lot of money to develop weapon systems for the government, so therefore privilege. boo hoo”

or “Baseball comes to Derek Jeter naturally, so privilege, and I should be respected for my abseball talents too.”

[/quote]

Yeah, but Neph is not claiming the privilege is someone’s fault. He’s just saying it’s there.

Edit - and I’m with you that the majority of the time obese people have the capability to change the fact that they’re obese. That was my point to Neph as well.

Copy and pasted from their site.
" You can?t tell how healthy someone is just by looking at them.
You can?t tell how much someone eats or exercises just by looking at them.
Even if you could, it?s none of your business anyway. "
lol okay then. So, all of us here don’t look this way because we train sensibly and eat optimally. (or at least not the 30+ poptart a week diet dem’ fatties do)

http://www.xojane.com/issues/whats-wrong-fat-shaming Fatty feminist gonna fat.

Well, here is the thing.

If I am gonna be forced to pay for it, it is my fucking problem.

And those are the exact same people who think that its fucking great that I have to pay for stuff like that.

Cool, let me keep my money and I dont care if you freebase HIV infested Oreos anally.

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

Yeah, but Neph is not claiming the privilege is someone’s fault. He’s just saying it’s there.
[/quote]

I’m more-so arguing against the link in the OP, but his point is weak as well.

Privilege doesn’t suddenly happen because you happen to be on the short end of the stick in some social way.

I’m awful at basketball. I’m going to start a blog complaining about basketball privilege, and bask in the attention I don’t deserve for being shitty at basketball.

[quote]sufiandy wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
Fat people (by which I mean obese, not lose a few lbs, or even 30 lbs) are overwhelmingly lazy or have pyschological issues.

If I could, I would not hire fat people, but apparently thats illegal now.[/quote]

How can you get in trouble for that? Ideally you interview more people than you hire so the reason you don’t hire someone is just you preferred someone else.[/quote]

Obama’s EEOC decided that fat people who are fat without an underlying disability are “disabled” under the ADA, and thus you have to make “reasonable accomodations” for their fat asses.

In short, fat people that are voluntarily fat — not a heart condition, not diabetes, just fat because they eat too much and move too little — are protected.

Seriously. I read it here first, then my HR director told me. Then I looked it up. It’s true.

My brother shared this with me. This seems like a good add to the thread.