T Nation

THE TALK

Well my dad was waiting on parts for his juicer that broke a long while back and accidentally opened a box of terumo’s. Now, before anyone gives me the whole “Oh you still live with your parents shit” Yup I do. We get along well, we work well as a family and we’re all fine with it. I did just graduate last semester and have work lined up ect. ect. so let’s get back to the topic.

I “kinda” figured that with some of the conversations and the knowledge I have of AAS ergogenic aids and various supplements he already knew what was up. However, I suppose like most things that are frowned upon by society parents no matter what age you are want to think “not my kids”. So he went on to say that everything he had read on it was negative. It causes heart disease, cancer, shrinks your nuts, it’s cheating, and the one that we’ve all played with in our minds “once you cross from lifting weights, eating right, and supplementing to sticking needles in your body you’ve crossed over”.

Now mind you he’s not the typical american and reads quite a bit. He’s mainly into the work of Dr. Weil and a while I’m drawing a blank quite a few other Dr.'s who’s main focus of work is what I guess you would consider life extension? I’ve read a bit of Weil’s work and looked over some of the other publications he’s read. In regaurds to aas there is very little if anything said at all. So the rest of his info as he’s admitted comes from the sources everyone else gets their info. Ie. the media and the occasional documentary/special on the topic.

I brought up the Real Sports Documentary on AAS and ironically he said that the Dr. on their said that aas cause all sorts of health problems ie. high blood pressure, heart disease, kidney failure ect. ect. I mentioned the other Dr. who basically said none of that is true and has never been proven. His responce was something along the lines of “Well it’s just a matter of what Dr. you want to listen to”. I can’t really argue that… can I? Anyway I tried to point out things like the fact that I check my cholesterol levels regularly, don’t drink or smoke, monitor my blood pressure, never abuse orals. Honestly I think that might have changed his view a bit or he might just know I’m not going to change my mind :slight_smile:

We sorta drifted away from the topic and started talking about how bad NSAID’s are for your body. I related that back into the subject and mentioned what night of binge drinking does to your body ect. Overall I think I might have gotten through a little bit? I mean he wasn’t flipping out and to be honest the man has a bit of a temper at times LOL but I love him. Part of me want’s to pull up a few posts on the topic for example T and your ticker came to mind. BUT this is Testosteron magazine and reading an article on AAS on a magazine called testosterone probaly won’t be to convincing to anyone who’s the least bit skeptical.

On the other hand I’m not 100% sure why I give a shit about trying to convince him. I’m a full grown man and have my right to my own opinion. Still I respect the man ALOT and right now I feel like I really let him down. He reffered to it as cheating. For along time I’d laugh at that but coming from my old man it’s a little different. Now I’m not saying he’s right, nor am I saying I am. There’s just as many pro’s of aas use as their is con’s and actually if they weren’t illegal and people where so misinformed about them I’d say that wasn’t true. However, the main thing is I feel like a let my dad down and no man wants to do that.

So what do you boys think? Yeah perhaps I care too much about what he thinks but unless you knew him that would be real hard to say. How’s it work in your families? Does it go unsaid? Do you get shunned? Is it no big deal? I’m curious.

To wax philosophicaly, sometimes it is tough to hear someone you respect, that has, what you believe, is an ill informed or “mass hysteria” induced opinion.

Like steriods are bad (period)!!!

Your probably better just leaving it alone since there is no purpose in convincing him otherwise.

If you feel compeled to soften his position or beliefs, perhaps you should begin with how he feels about HRT for men, under medical supervision.

It is likely that he supports HRT for men, and his logic behind it will give you ground to furthur support the position that, in some circumstances AAS may not be that bad.

I don’t have any experience with steroids…but hell, my old man still thinks that weightlifting in general is bad for you.

Sometimes they just have an idea in their head, and no amount of science or proof will change that- especially not when presented by their sons.

Let it lie.

I totally know where you’re coming from-- it was important to me to at least let my dad know where I was coming from about all this, both because I trust and respect him and because I wanted him to not be as misinformed as the general populace is about AAS.

It took a few different talks and he was mostly concerned about my health. I told him I’d done research, reassured him that I knew more about the mechanism of action and potential side effects than the sleep meds he and Mom take, and that I’d never go overboard. He eventually came around. My sister knows too and she thinks the whole thing is sort of amusing.

My girlfriend took way longer to convince than my pops…

Yeah when I was 18 and started my very first cycle my dad found my pins. He went into the top drawer of my dresser looking for my old pair of glasses and there they were.

I was in high school at the time and got paged to go to the office, where they relaid me the message to get home ASAP.

I walk in and there’s the old man with my pins on the table and a look on his face I had never seen before. I knew the jig was up and just admitted what they were for and didn’t say much else, I just listened to his rhetoric which was very similar to your father’s, told him I wouldn’t do them again and found a better place to stash my gear from then on. When you live with your parents you have got to stash your shit so its very tough to find 'cause you never know.

Yes it is tough to hear such age-old niave nonsense from your father, who otherwise you would listen to without thinking, but I have always been more interested in the truth than anything, and when you know it regarding doping, you just have to block out the crap and do your own thing, but I empathize nonetheless.

I think my family knows or knew when I was on, they never said anything though, and quite frankly I know better than they do so I wouldn’t have given any of them much mind if anything were to have been said. I sometimes wonder if my brother was ever under suspicion when he was lifting, but he’s told me no one ever said squat to him.

He’s on HRT. Transdermal, I mentioned that too. Like I said it’s not so much that he might disagree (I’m sure he does) it’s just that it actually hurts to know that someone you love and respect probably thinks less of you for a choice that you stand behind 100%.

Like I believe Dan Duchaine once said or maybe it was Bill Philips “Why is it that if I wanted to go to a doctor, have him pump me full of estrogen, give me breast implants and turn my penis into a vagina most people would call it a life choice. On the other hand if I want bigger muscles and am interested in using AAS I’m looked down upon.”

THat wasn’t quite it but you guys get my drift.

[quote]WideGuy wrote:

Like I believe Dan Duchaine once said or maybe it was Bill Philips “Why is it that if I wanted to go to a doctor, have him pump me full of estrogen, give me breast implants and turn my penis into a vagina most people would call it a life choice. On the other hand if I want bigger muscles and am interested in using AAS I’m looked down upon.”

THat wasn’t quite it but you guys get my drift.[/quote]

That is something I never thought of before…Nice.

The subject came up with my father last weekend during a BBQ. He was obviously worried and admitted that he had very little knowledge about the subject. He did like the fact that I ALWAYS keep my Dr. well informed and seem him very frequently for blood work and such.

He is an old trades-man so he hasnt seen a doctor in over 15 years. He mentioned that I have a responsible attitude towards the subject and even asked about HRT for himself.

On another note Im working towards my wife being confortable with me and my “supplements” . I just got back to 225 so im sure when I hit 250 (if ever lol) Ill HAVE to bring it up.

LOL. Good story.

Pretty much ever since I started bodybuilding at 16 my friends, classmates and even teachers accused me of using but never my family which is what really the only people whos opinions matter a shit to me.

I started my first real cycle about 3 weeks ago and it definately didn’t start as planned. Long story short I ended up in the ER, my whole family knows about my usage and truth is it didn’t even phase them. They all understand what my goals are and they’re behind me 100% which is a very relieving feeling.

After I explained all the how’s and why’s of hormones they have a new opinion of them. Besides nobody is a fucking saint.

“Let he who is perfect cast the first stone”

[quote]WideGuy wrote:
Like I believe Dan Duchaine once said or maybe it was Bill Philips “Why is it that if I wanted to go to a doctor, have him pump me full of estrogen, give me breast implants and turn my penis into a vagina most people would call it a life choice. On the other hand if I want bigger muscles and am interested in using AAS I’m looked down upon.”
[/quote]

That was eventually the tactic I used with the girl; her choice to use birth control (before we got together) was a choice to use exogenous hormones for their perceived beneficial effect on her body. Once you get someone to agree to that, if they’re a reasonable adult they have to acknowledge that there is a societal double standard. Then you explain how much misinformation is out there about AAS and you’re off and running.

Have any of you told your non-lifting friends?

[quote]
Have any of you told your non-lifting friends?[/quote]

All my non-lifting friends don’t understand why I lift let alone being “on” .

Wide:

We parents worry about our kids whether there 12, 22 or 32. When I talk to mine its about making the right choices.

If I was facing the situation you described, the talk would go something like, youre a man, you make your own choices, don’t be stupid and F up your life before it get’s started, and don’t ship gear to the house, then I would say, next time I’ll probably have to kick your ass so don’t let there be a next time, and so on…good luck

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Has anyone ever had the “Talk” with a wife? I’m not so much talking about girlfriends but wives.

BTW great thread

You know wide…I crossed my dad to the dark side the same night he found my juice and my pins. Bam !!! Hit im with 500mg of testE. Now the fucker walks around with a better bod than I. Chances are wide that you need to be straight with ya pops and don’t hand him no shit. Setting aside the juice…tell the man the truth.

Biscuite

I have had many other TALKS w/ her and we have been married many years and share almost everything …but not this, she suspects but doesn’t push the issue. You never know how something like this hobby could bite you in the ass later in many different ways…

[quote]bboybean wrote:
Has anyone ever had the “Talk” with a wife? I’m not so much talking about girlfriends but wives.

BTW great thread[/quote]

im going through this right now as we speak. my mom has been hinting to me she knows.

i think my kid brother told her. she keeps asking if steroids make someone angry and i told her no. it gives you a sense of well being. then she asked about people dying and i told her there is not 1 report of a steroid death. that no one has ever died from steroids. i also told her that you carry around an extra liter of blood.

that got her thinking of benefits. she wants to know more. i told her about my football buddy whos grandfather has been on roids for over 40 years and he is fine. then she remembered that its used in therapy.

she said they make you look and feel younger dont they. i said yup. she also started asking about women taking steroids. i told her women can as long as its not a male hormone and that women run a higher risk of something bad happening since they are all derived from male hormones. either way this cycle is becomming a nightmare. im only 3 weeks in and i do everyday shots and its nerve wracking when they ask me why im going to my friends house every night.

(i keep all of it there). from now on its all longer acting esters. i can deal with this. the TALK will be brought up in my house for as long as i live because my parents are old fashioned and middle eastern. my dad has no idea whats going on.

he thinks im a drunk and do drugs. ever since i shipped some dbols to my house and got the seized life has never been the same.

[quote]pankie wrote:
ever since i shipped some dbols to my house and got the seized life has never been the same.[/quote]

LOL. The letter with the return address of

Department of Homeland Security

raised some suspicions at my house too.

dont sweat it WG, its not going to be the last time you let somebody you care about down. Its also up to them to show they really care about you, not by just judging you but also by trying to understand exactly what your doing and what for.

Shit, it could of been worse, those syringes could of been used for heroine injections, no joke! you seem to have your head on straight. Your father is obligated to do some un-biased research before giving you any more crap. Like E said, nobodys a saint, nobody. keep doing what your doing and good luck.

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